Author Topic: BigMike's Big Project (Read 716611 times)

synwars · « **Reply #1020 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:10:20 PM »

Psss.

That's what I'm talking about...

Just heavier duty hardware thats all.

BigMike · « **Reply #1021 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:31:40 PM »

whoops

<--- BigMike I read your post again and figured it out

I am not quite sure what I am going to do still though....... My truck sits level right now and these pivot blocks will take up about 1.5". So, my original plan was to remove 1 or 2 more leafs from the rear pack, which would make the rear end sit lower than the front, and then the pivot blocks would bring the truck back to level, but the problem is that I have already removed 2 leafs from the pack already. Yesterday I carried my MR2 race engine up the hill to my buddies house (for future plans) and just having that ~250 pounds in the back really made a huge difference with the way the truck sat and drove.

I mean if you put two humans in the back, then the back is already down a good inch or so.

So I know that I will loose all ability to carry a load, which is ok with me because I don't tow with this truck nor carry any thing more than camping gear, except for those rare occasions I have to pick up parts or carry engines around......

See, my whole goal for next week (I'll be on spring break) is to focus on my rear suspension. Everything works great on this truck except for my rear suspension. The problem is that my truck is just too light. If you ramp it, the unsprung rear tire instantly lifts off the ground. But if a couple people jump in the bed, then the tire touches back down. Well, I don't carry 400+ pounds with me on a usual wheeling trip, plus I try to keep the majority of my heavy cargo at the front of the bed to distribute the load across both axles.

So I once saw a post about a guy who used a coil spring mounted at the center of the axle, with pirches built on top of the diff and one between the frame rails directly above it. I have tried searching for it but I can not seem to find it.

Here's an illustration I just made:

BigMike · « **Reply #1022 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:34:46 PM »

Ok, now the point of that center coil is to aid with load capabilities while having nearly ZERO effect on articulation.

Since the coil is mounted right at the center line of the axle, when the axle articulates, the coil will just barely be twisted, and its a spring anyways, so it won't mind a bit of axial bending.

So if I do that, then I can afford to remove a couple leafs from my spring pack, install the pivot blocks to regain my ride height, and then install the center coil spring to regain my load rating.

Then, with the super soft leaf springs, I can flex out the rear end like never before and still have the same advantages that I have with a much harder spring pack.

What do you guys think about that?

I should add that I rarely carry (borrow) a spare tire and I don't even own one. The last time I carried a spare I just threw it in the bed. Anyways, if I did carry a spare in the stock location, I could just build the pirch at the center of the spare tire, but that would be a huge nuisance to have to unbolt and remove the rear spring every time I needed to pull the spare down

Shamb · « **Reply #1023 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:43:30 PM »

So are you using the coil just to keep the same ride height after you pull out a few leafs?

BigMike · « **Reply #1024 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:46:07 PM »

I'm talking about using a coil spring like these:

Isuzu Trooper Rear Coil:

Jeep Coil:

4Runner Rear Coil:

I am betting that I could just head to the wrecking yard and take my pick from hundreds of different spring rates and lenghts. Can't cost too much for just 1 coil spring

synwars · « **Reply #1025 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:46:55 PM »

I know exactly what ur talking about.

Here's some info from ZUK's site. Ken is awesome, hes a smart dude. Check it out.

http://www.gearinstalls.com/kencoil.htm

http://www.gearinstalls.com/scottcoil.htm

http://www.gearinstalls.com/dadcoil.htm

I think it's a good idea. Hit it!

BigMike · « **Reply #1026 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:50:38 PM »

Quote from: Shamb on Apr 03, 2006, 12:43:30 PM

So are you using the coil just to keep the same ride height after you pull out a few leafs?

Well, I think the 1.5" from the pivot block should put my ride height back to level after I remove 1 or 2 leafs from my rear springs, but I am more concerned about the trucks ability to carry a load. The softer I make the rear end, the more its gonna sag when I throw my camping gear in there. The coil spring will allow me to carry larger loads again, to some extent at least....

I know that if my rear springs get too soft then I will have loads of body roll, which doesn't mix with my driving style, so I might need to look into a sway bar setup with disconnects, something I dislike...

BigMike · « **Reply #1027 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:55:18 PM »

Quote from: synwars on Apr 03, 2006, 12:46:55 PM

I know exactly what ur talking about.

Here's some info from ZUK's site. Ken is awesome, hes a smart dude. Check it out.

http://www.gearinstalls.com/kencoil.htm

http://www.gearinstalls.com/scottcoil.htm

http://www.gearinstalls.com/dadcoil.htm

I think it's a good idea. Hit it!

AHHH!! That's it! I've seen that page before! Thanks mang $Beer Chug\'n$ A point for you

"We cut 3 inches off of the Rubicon Express Jeep TJ coil......and it still
netted us 3.5" of much needed lift..........a softer ride and a nice payload enhancer"

Before:

After:

Thanks for the links. I am gonna use those for reference next week

Shamb · « **Reply #1028 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 12:56:18 PM »

Yea that does sound like a good idea, I see where your going now.. just took me a minute to figure it out. Try it and post up many pics! Sounds like it would work and like you said, where its placed it won't affect the articulation at all.. just give you more stability to pack stuff in the back.

BigMike · « **Reply #1029 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 01:02:09 PM »

Wow! Hey! Did anyone notice that nifty shackle support he has?? Check that out -- with the pivot blocks, I won't need any lateral movement from the shackles in order to flex, and with that shackle support, I can regain some of my cornering stability since their will be less undamped (free sprung) movement.

Now if the body is going to roll, then it would be forced to come at the cost of compressing the springs, which is much harder to do than just wiggle shackles back and forth.

Mad Props for that guy!!

synwars · « **Reply #1030 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 01:07:33 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Apr 03, 2006, 12:55:18 PM

AHHH!! That's it! I've seen that page before! Thanks mang $Beer Chug\'n$ A point for you

Hey no problem. That's what we're here for.

I really like that idea. I like the idea of the pivoting perches as well.

DO IT.

Ramrod · « **Reply #1031 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 03:14:43 PM »

I think Hyena needs that shackle support for his truck but heres some pics of a custom coil spring setup I took of project death trap

BigMike · « **Reply #1032 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 04:56:21 PM »

yeah that's cool and would aid in load capacity, but it restricts articulation

I guess that's why it's a death trap

blackdiamond · « **Reply #1033 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 05:02:26 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Apr 03, 2006, 01:02:09 PM

Wow! Hey! Did anyone notice that nifty shackle support he has?? Check that out -- with the pivot blocks, I won't need any lateral movement from the shackles in order to flex, and with that shackle support, I can regain some of my cornering stability since their will be less undamped (free sprung) movement.

Now if the body is going to roll, then it would be forced to come at the cost of compressing the springs, which is much harder to do than just wiggle shackles back and forth.

Do you expect much side movement with a non-rubicon style shackle? I know the rubicon style allow quite a bit of movement, but the braced ones should only allow movement at the bushings which seems like it should be minimal, or at least small enough to not cause road handling issues.

From watching gotrocks drive around on the street with his 4 inch Marlin springs I don't think that a little shackle movement is going to effect things much. His 4runner has enough body roll to toss you out on your ear, I was surprised at how soft the springs really were. I am assuming that you are running a Marlin spring or something with a similar spring rate.

BigMike · « **Reply #1034 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 05:18:19 PM »

Yes I am running Marlin 4" USA springs all around. My front springs are PERFECT. I can go over parking lot speed bumps at 15 MPH with little jarring until the rear hits.. Those tires get straight-out launched!

As for my shackles, I like to run them loose, quite loose actually. But, you are right, now that I don't need to do everything to help the springs twist (since they won't be twisting anymore) I can run my shackles tighter without preventing spring operation.

yotaboy79 · « **Reply #1035 on:** Apr 03, 2006, 06:57:39 PM »

mike you could use frenched spring hangers and that would probably compinsate enouph for the pivit blocks
just an idea

BigMike · « **Reply #1036 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 12:10:52 AM »

Yeah........ well that is the "ideal" setup...... but from what I've seen its a huge hassle..

Bevin has our 4" front springs and our 5" rear springs with frenched hangers and yet the back of his truck is STILL a good 1 or 2" lower in the back. So with his setup, it seems PERFECT to run the Pivot blocks, and that is why I will be making two pairs, one for me and one for him.

But I am not sure if I want to do the frenched hangers yet..... I like the added hanger and spring clearance, but I am not conviniced about it yet. Also, I will have to remount my Optima battery since it's right in the way of a frenched hanger......

Picture with the stock rear hangers. Remember our Springs' hangers are forward like 5" or so

ohhhhhh ideas to ponder, things to do...

MiniSimp · « **Reply #1037 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 07:10:11 AM »

Mike, why don't you change out your rear springs to 3" when you do the pivot blocks?

BigMike · « **Reply #1038 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 10:55:59 AM »

Because my truck is not $That\'s Gay$

I mean thats another way to do it right, but I am gonna make it work with what I got

b_ripper8 · « **Reply #1039 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 11:24:11 AM »

Keep in mind, the guy that cut 3 1/5" off that coil spring increased his springrate a ton. Didn't know if you knew that already.

BigMike · « **Reply #1040 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 07:35:01 PM »

If I go that route, then I will be needing the extra spring rate.

Right now I am just hopeing that I can just remove one leaf, and then run longer shackles that lay down more (redo my pirches) and hope it will still hold a load

Ramrod · « **Reply #1041 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 08:20:52 PM »

I say you just take a leaf out and wheel it. Its not really gonna hurt anything to bottom it it out. Mine bottoms out accasionally when wheeling with a load and my shock mounts are knowhere as beefy as yours. I don't see why it really maters if your truck sits level on the trail because for the most part the ground won't be level. Here is a pic of mine with the most weight I ever had in the bed and I had to wheel around with it like that. Another option I just thought of while I was messing with these pics on photobucket is what about setting up an extra overload spring above the main pack that hits little stoppers like they had on the 70-80's chevys. That would be pretty trick and work perfect for your application. If you don't know what i'm talking about let me know and i'll find a pic

Hyena · « **Reply #1042 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 08:34:42 PM »

Quote from: bigbluewillys on Apr 03, 2006, 03:14:43 PM

I think Hyena needs that shackle support for his truck but heres some pics of a custom coil spring setup I took of project death trap

Nah, thats is ok. lol It puts less stress on the springs if the shackles twist more. If i were to drive my truck on the road every day then i would probably add a bar in the middle of the shackle.

My shackles don't twist do they?

and that isn't even full twist.

Ramrod · « **Reply #1043 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 08:40:56 PM »

its funny to watch yours twist following you on the road

Hyena · « **Reply #1044 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 08:44:28 PM »

I don't notice it anymore lol

BigMike · « **Reply #1045 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 08:45:13 PM »

You guys should really build some Pivot blocks. Wait around another week when I get mine installed. You know I will take plenty of before and after pics including pics on our 45 degree ramp.

Ramrod · « **Reply #1046 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 08:52:59 PM »

I would like too along with many other things but that would mean I would have to spend money

synwars · « **Reply #1047 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 09:47:54 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Apr 04, 2006, 08:45:13 PM

You guys should really build some Pivot blocks. Wait around another week when I get mine installed. You know I will take plenty of before and after pics including pics on our 45 degree ramp.

Ditto on that one. I got some mad scraps already!

BigMike · « **Reply #1048 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 09:54:16 PM »

Where'd you get that nifty micro pen from?

synwars · « **Reply #1049 on:** Apr 04, 2006, 10:10:25 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Apr 04, 2006, 09:54:16 PM

Where'd you get that nifty micro pen from?

At least I don't have to worry about breakage.

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