Author Topic: NorCal Eldorado National Forest TRAILS ALERT ***URGENT***  (Read 15129 times)

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BigMike

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NorCal Eldorado National Forest TRAILS ALERT ***URGENT***
« on: Jul 10, 2007, 05:54:24 PM »
Saw this on Pirates and thought I would pass it along!!



ALL who ride in the Eldorado National Forest – Extremely Urgent

PLEASE make sure you attend at least one of these meetings. It is of EXTREME importance because they will be held AFTER the Draft Environmental Impact Statement is released and DURING the 45 day public comment period.

Time is of the essence!!!! The 45 day period will begin on July 20th and END on September 4th, 2007

PLEASE pass the word on. Post on a your club/community BB’s and any place else you think will be effective.

If you are in a club, ask your entire club to attend at least one of these meetings. We need a VERY large presence at these last 5 meetings.

Please refer to the Land-Use section to become aware of the ways you can help in this FINAL step of the Route Designation Process in the Eldorado National Forest.

Thank you

The Eldorado National Forest website can be found here…
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/index.shtml

7/24 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Placerville - Marshall Building El Dorado County Fairgrounds, 100 Placerville Drive, Placerville, CA 95667.

7/25 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Jackson - Civic Center, 33 Broadway, Jackson, CA 95642.

7/26 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Markleeville - Turtle Rock Community Center, 17300 State Route 89, Markleeville, CA 96120.

7/31 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Folsom - Lake Natomas Inn, 702 Gold Lake Drive, Folsom CA 95630. To be confirmed.

8/2 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Concord - Pleasant Hill Recreation Center, 320 Civic Drive, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523.



« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2007, 06:13:48 PM by BigMike »

BigMike [OP]

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Last night at the Four Wheel Drive Club of Fresno, I printed and passed out 30 copies of this to the club members. There were a couple people from our club who were actually going to run Fordyce next weekend and were equally shocked by the news.

If anyone can attend these meetings it would really be a good thing.

blane525 and I are going to try to do a road trip for 1 of the meetings, but they go from 7p-9p, which means we would get back home after midnight on a week day. So we are not sure if we can make it. Its a good 4-5 hr trip 1-way for me..

BLACKDOG

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I plan on going to the Folsom one for sure if they have one there, its to be confirmed as of now. If not there, then the P-ville one, and mabye the one in Pleasant Hill.  :dunno: mabye I'll go to all three!
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BigMike [OP]

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Do we wanna get a group together and try to go to one?

Ok guys, here are the dates again:

7/24, Tuesday (Placerville, CA 95667)
7/25, Wednesday (Jackson, CA 95642)
7/26, Thursday (Markleeville, CA 96120)
7/31, Tuesday (Folsom CA 95630)
8/2, Thursday (Pleasant Hill, CA 94523)

Here are the distances for me (as per Google Maps):
Placerville: 214 mi – about 3 hours 29 mins :dunno:
Jackson: 173 mi – about 3 hours 4 mins :)
Markleeville: 216 mi – about 4 hours 31 mins :o
Folsom: 194 mi – about 3 hours 12 mins :)
Pleasant Hill: 179 mi – about 2 hours 57 mins :greengrin:

I thought they were a bit furtherer away, glad to see they aren't. I'm sure in my Crawler Rig it'll 4-5 hrs :yupyup: but not in a little car :thumbs:

So who could join me at one/any of these dates and locations?

I'll get off work early and maybe we could grab some quick dinner at a dennys or something..


EDIT: Added MiniSimp Smilies :gap:
« Last Edit: Jul 15, 2007, 06:44:48 PM by BigMike »

MiniSimp

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Placerville Distance: 101.4 miles Time: 1 hour 37 mins :dunno:
Jackson Distance: 67.3 miles Time: 1 hour 14 mins :)
Markleeville Distance: 149.7 miles Time: 2 hours 50 mins :(
Folsom Distance: 81.7 miles Time: 1 hour 22 mins :)
Pleasant Hill Distance: 47.9 miles Time: 44 mins :greengrin:

Not sure which I would be able to go to, I'll have the kid at the time.

Anywhere besides Markleeville sounds ok.

CRS

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I will be going to the one in placervile for sure and the one in Folsom if it is confirmed and if not then i will attend the pleasent Hill one. I am in rohnert Park Ca if any one wants to go along i have an open seat let me know and we can work out the details.

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MiniSimp

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Some of you may not realize how important it is to have a big turn-out for this.

Please go to at least one of the meetings if you value wheeling on public land!!!

Duffil

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Placerville Distance: 101.4 miles Time: 1 hour 37 mins :dunno:
Jackson Distance: 67.3 miles Time: 1 hour 14 mins :)
Markleeville Distance: 149.7 miles Time: 2 hours 50 mins :(
Folsom Distance: 81.7 miles Time: 1 hour 22 mins :)
Pleasant Hill Distance: 47.9 miles Time: 44 mins :greengrin:

Not sure which I would be able to go to, I'll have the kid at the time.

Anywhere besides Markleeville sounds ok.
you wanna carpool to one of these?

MiniSimp

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you wanna carpool to one of these?
Sure, as long as I can go, it's still up in the air, but I'll be trying hard.

Duffil

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cool. let me know which one and I'll meet ya at your place.

MiniSimp

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It'll be Pleasant Hill. :yesnod:

Duffil

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YO, Mike, are you still gonna head up there?

MiniSimp

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YO, Mike, are you still gonna head up there?
Mike's probably sleeping, especially if he didn't get his nap today. :greengrin:

BigMike [OP]

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I was rudely awaken from my preslumber nap time by some whacko in a 1985 Toyota SR5 Pickup with ":pokinit: knobs" who broke down across the street from my room and got out and started cussing and throwing parts all over the road. dang what an idiot

Ok, Pleasant Hill it is!! :_order:

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alright, it's on the calendar!

MiniSimp

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I was rudely awaken from my preslumber nap time by some whacko in a 1985 Toyota SR5 Pickup with ":pokinit: knobs" who broke down across the street from my room and got out and started cussing and throwing parts all over the road. dang what an idiot

Ok, Pleasant Hill it is!! :_order:
Man, that guy is a jerk! Kick his ass! :gap:

weirdtimes_7

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Placerville Distance: 101.4 miles Time: 1 hour 37 mins :dunno:
Jackson Distance: 67.3 miles Time: 1 hour 14 mins :)
Markleeville Distance: 149.7 miles Time: 2 hours 50 mins :(
Folsom Distance: 81.7 miles Time: 1 hour 22 mins :)
Pleasant Hill Distance: 47.9 miles Time: 44 mins :greengrin:

Not sure which I would be able to go to, I'll have the kid at the time.

Anywhere besides Markleeville sounds ok.

I wish i could go.. seriously, but it would be a 12 hour plus drive to any of those.... just know the presence of Utard is there for ya

military_stang
:respect:

MiniSimp

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I'm in for sure.

The carpool is on. :thumbs:

mybluecruiser

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If you cant attend the meeting, please send letters.

At the meetings you will learn how an individual can properly argue for a route trail or campsite to remain open.

Once you learn how to do that, make sure you send those comments into the Forest Service during the 45 day comment period which starts on Friday.

keep your eye on the net and we will try to keep you posted as to what and who to write..

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Once you learn how to do that, make sure you send those comments into the Forest Service during the 45 day comment period which starts on Friday.

keep your eye on the net and we will try to keep you posted as to what and who to write..


It will be very important to send a professionally written letter.  One that is not, can work against us.

cougarfreak

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I'll be attending the Concord one for sure and might aim for the Placerville one as well.
Here's the links to maps:

7/24 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Placerville - Marshall Building El Dorado County Fairgrounds, 100 Placerville Drive, Placerville, CA 95667.

7/25 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Jackson - Civic Center, 33 Broadway, Jackson, CA 95642.

7/26 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Markleeville - Turtle Rock Community Center, 17300 State Route 89, Markleeville, CA 96120.

7/31 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Folsom - Lake Natomas Inn, 702 Gold Lake Drive, Folsom CA 95630. To be confirmed.

8/2 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Public Meeting Draft EIS Release Concord - Pleasant Hill Recreation Center 320 Civic Drive, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523.
I don't care if you laugh with me or at me, just laugh!!!

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http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/index.php?ShowPage=4Runner

cougarfreak

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I don't care if you laugh with me or at me, just laugh!!!

'97 4Runner, SAS'ed, cstm cougarfreak exo n traction bar,  YJ rears military wrapped w/ waggy main in front, Chevy 63's rear, King res. shocks & air bumps, Detroit locked D60 35sp chromo rear, '81 Waggy front D44 , chromo n superjoints, 35" BFG mud KM, Marlin 2.28 dual, twinned

http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/index.php?ShowPage=4Runner

cougarfreak

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Print and pass these out!!!




I don't care if you laugh with me or at me, just laugh!!!

'97 4Runner, SAS'ed, cstm cougarfreak exo n traction bar,  YJ rears military wrapped w/ waggy main in front, Chevy 63's rear, King res. shocks & air bumps, Detroit locked D60 35sp chromo rear, '81 Waggy front D44 , chromo n superjoints, 35" BFG mud KM, Marlin 2.28 dual, twinned

http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/index.php?ShowPage=4Runner

BigMike [OP]

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Thanks for linking these images from pirates, otherwise I would not have known about them.

If your browser is not displaying them correctly, here are links to download the two fliers:

Flier #1:
http://www.kurtuleas.com/flyer1web.jpg

Flier #2:
http://www.kurtuleas.com/flyer2.jpg

BigMike [OP]

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Ok, I will be at the Pleasant Hill meeting, and I am pushing for the Jackson meeting as well.

I will be driving my Infinity G20 so I should have a couple seats open. I can't make any promises yet, but please keep this in mind if you would like to come, then hopefully I will still have room. I will report back in a couple more days to see who all from the shop here is going to join me.

I will more likely have available seats for car-pooling to the Jackson meeting then the Pleasant Hill meeting.

BigMike [OP]

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Everyone, educate yourselves here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=596279

Here is the thread, copied without permission from the above link:


ROUTE DESIGNATION FAQ
Please read at your own risk, the author will not be held responsible for the fit of rage you will go into after reading about what is going to happen to your National Forests.

Due to the lack of understanding of what the Route Designation Process is and how it will affect public access to public lands, this post will break it down into layman’s terms. One huge reason the general public is not up in arms over the project is because of sheer ignorance of the project. Please feel free to add any bullet points to this post.

Q: What will Route Designation do?

A. The Route Designation Process (RDP) could and will close literally tens of thousands of miles of roads, trails and campsites in National Forests nation-wide. Some forests such as El Dorado National stand to lose over 2,500 miles worth of roads and trails.

Q: Why is this happening?

A. Forest Service got sued by the greenies because of mismanagement of the forests. A court order came down saying (basically) the Forest Service needs to take an inventory of all routes in the forest and re-designate them. Not necessarily CLOSE routes, (even though that is what they are doing) but in their words:

"The Forest Service wants to improve its management by balancing the public's enjoyment of using OHVs with ensuring the best possible care of the land. At the national level, the Forest Service is revising its policy governing the use of wheeled motor vehicles to develop a system of roads, trails and areas designated for motor vehicle use. This new policy will still provide public opportunities for motorized and non-motorized recreation, while enhancing protection of habitat and aquatic, soil, air and cultural resources."

yeah, right...

Q: So what’s the big deal?

A: TENS OF THOSANDS of miles of roads and trails, many which have been in use for decades, will be closed. This will severely limit access to public lands by the public. Many of the roads that will be closed are spur routes that lead to primitive campsites. Once these roads, trail and campsites are removed, they will be lost FOREVER. It does not matter if a fire-road or logging trail has been in use for 20+ years or if you have camped there forever. If it is not on the final map released by the Forest service, it’s gone for good. This will be the biggest change in the National Forest system in HISTORY.


Q: We got groups like the Blue Ribbon Coalition and FOTR fighting against this right?

A: Yes, HOWEVER, the way the RDP is set up; INDIVIDIUALS need to argue for as many routes, trails and campsites as possible. YOU CANNOT LEAVE THE FIGHT UP TO SOMEONE ELSE! We need a massive response to RDP in every National Forest.

Q: So, who will this affect?

A: These closures will not only effect the 4x4 community, but MX and ATV riders, campers who use dispersed camping, hunters and basically anyone who wants to travel through a National forest in a motor vehicle.

Q: Where will this happen?

A: RDP will happen in EVERY National Forest, if it is not already underway in a forest near you, it will be soon.

Q: Why isn’t there a huge outcry from the 4x4 community?

A: Many people have NO idea or do not understand what the RDP will do to their National forests. If they knew, the public outcry from many groups would be massive. The wording and definitions used by the Forest service are often very confusing. Hence, this FAQ. Another problem is the apathy in the 4x4 community towards Land-use. Many people think groups such as Blue Ribbon can and will do all the work, but in this instance they cannot.

Q: So all is lost right?

A: OH HELL NO! Once the Forest Service picks it’s final Draft, the public has 45 days to comment on and argue for routes, trails and campsites to be put back on the map. It’s kinda like a town meeting, If you do not do this, you have no legal ground to stand on later to fight for a route.

Q: So what can I do?
A: Get involved! NOW! Make sure everyone you know responds during the 45 day comment period. Get on the forest service e-mail list. Pass out flyers on the route designation process in a National Forest near you. Post on various message boards on the internet to spread the news. ELDO National will be holding meetings all over NorCal after the final Draft is picked on the 20th. GO TO ONE OF THOSE!!!

Q: How do I find out if my campsite, trail etc is on the chopping block?

A: At least for El Dorado National, they have created 5 alternative maps. Alternative “A”, is a complete inventory of all the roads and trails in the forest. The other 4 maps are versions that they will pick from. They pick the one they want in ELDO on July 20th, that’s when the public comment period begins. You will need to compare the inventory map against the new map from the forest service. YOU MUST DO THIS! We will not know which alternative the Forest Service will pick until July 20th (for ELDO), but it is best to be prepared. Check all your normal areas you 4 wheel, camp, hunt, fish etc. in.

Eldo’s alterantive maps can be seen here:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/alternatives/index.shtml


Q: how does this whole thing happen? What are the steps?

A: It’s a five step process:

a. The Forest Service does an inventory of all existing roads and trails used by off-road vehicles and compile the info. This includes “user-created” roads that the forest service does not manage.

b. They issue an order prohibiting wheeled vehicles on these routes until the project is over.

c. The forest service proposes a new map (or multiple alternative maps) of the forest with routes designated and/or removed from the maps. Supposedly this is done with public input.

d. The Forest service releases a draft map with which routes will be for off-road use and which routes will be closed.

e. The public has a forty-five day window to argue for these routes to remain open. (or closed for that matter)

f. The forest service makes a “final-final” map of the forest identifying their “approved” routes.


Q: So is the Rubicon safe?

A: Yes........ and no. Since the trail is a county road, the Forest Service cannot mess with it, BUT many of the spur routes and bypasses off the 'Con are on the chopping block. forget driving off the trail to camp....

Major spur routes or portions of the 'Con on the chopping block:
* Old True Sluice
* long bypass north of Little Sluice, feeds into Thousand Dollar Hill
* bypasses near Devil's Postpile
* spur routes near Buck Island, especially below the dam
* McKinstry access to Ellis Creek


If the forest service closes 2,500 miles of OTHER trails in the forest, (ncluding Barrett Lake trail which is on the chopping block) where do you think those users are going to go? You think the 'Con is packed now, wait until after route dez....

One thing that may really hurt us in the future is now you will have a greater amount of users in a smaller area, thereby creating more damage and giving the "Other side" more ammo to close even more trails. It's a catch-22. They really got us cornered with this one...

Q: So really, how bad is all this?

A: Here are two sample maps of the same exact area in ELDO National forest. This is maybe 40 square miles worth of roads off of Iron Mountain/Silverfork road. The first map is the current inventory of trails, notice the numbered routes. Very few if ANY of these are single track trails, mostly dirt forest roads. I personally know this area VERY WELL.

The second map is what would happen if Alternative D is picked on the 20th. "There is a worse alternative than this!" To make it even WORSE notice the routes that do not have a red line thru them. That means green-stickers are not allowed on them anymore. (ATV'S Dirt Bikes etc)



Potential AFTER route Dez




« Last Edit: Jul 18, 2007, 09:10:08 AM by BigMike »

cougarfreak

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For the Pleasant Hill meeting, I'll be meeting a few others from a Vacaville club at the Cordelia junction (80/680 interchange) in the Costco/Applebees parking lot at 5:30 for some eats, then head to the meeting.  I too, have space available if anyone needs to truckpool.
I don't care if you laugh with me or at me, just laugh!!!

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http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/index.php?ShowPage=4Runner

BigMike [OP]

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For the Pleasant Hill meeting, I'll be meeting a few others from a Vacaville club at the Cordelia junction (80/680 interchange) in the Costco/Applebees parking lot at 5:30 for some eats

I would love to join you guys, but that interchange is 21.6 miles (out of my way) too far North for me.

If anyone else is interested, let's meet up somewhere in Pleasant Hill for snacks (:meal:). I'll try to get off work around 3pm and try to be there around 5-5:30?

BigMike [OP]

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Here is another good read from the linked thread above:


Rick:

I wish I knew the magic formula....

Personally, I try to stick with non-descriptive words when I push issues in front of the agencies.

For example, I use "route" rather than trail or road.

I do not like the term OHV or off-road and try to refrain from using them.

I use vehicle (or motorized), rather than jeep, dirtbike, ATV, or buggy.

I have found problems on terminology between Forest Service and BLM.

In general, Forest Service seems to create a difference between vehicles based on "street-legal". For the FS, they deal with county roads mixed with Forest Service roads. As such, rules concerning travel on county roads are easy to incorporate into rules for travel on FS roads. That means it is easy for them to prohibit travel to non-street legal vehicles on travel systems where general public is expected to be found.

State Vehicle Code supports that non-street legal vehicles are prohibited from using public roads; unless variances have been applied for and obtained by the county. Mendocino and Shasta stand to lose several routes because there is no way they can be continuous without travel on a public road.

Whether you are talking FS or BLM, the key factor is the county. If the county assigns a certain classification to the route within their county transportation plan, it is only open to motorized traffic where the vehicle is in compliance with state vehicle licensing and meet Federal Department of Transportation qualifications as a vehicle that can be licensed and driven on public roads.

The county can apply for a variance to allow non-street legal vehicles to cross or use for a short distance a public road. Or, depending on the level of county involvement, the county can permit non-street legal traffic. That is the basic underlying rule that let non-street legal vehicles on the Rubicon (i.e. unmaintained county road).

So, the core issue revolves around the county and the agency. Basically, is the county willing to step up and assume responsibility for a route that is within the agencies responsibility?

It can be done. However, is there willingness on the part of the county to push the issue???

When you take the county out of the equation, the FS deals with 5 levels of roads. In general, "OHV" traffic is limited to Level 2 routes. Level 1 routes are open only to official/administrative access. I don't appear to have the full info on the levels on my laptop.

Without digressing further, the best tact to follow is to argue for access to Level 1-3 routes without getting into the street-legal argument. The underlying issue is to maintain motorized access to routes. The details on equipment specifics can be argued later.

Knowing that on some routes, county enforcement of state vehicle code will apply, I would argue that it is better to keep county/state vehicle code issues away from federal route issues.

Then, if the agency decides to assign a vehicle/equipment specific criteria, it is easier to argue against.



BLACKDOG

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For the Pleasant Hill meeting, I'll be meeting a few others from a Vacaville club at the Cordelia junction (80/680 interchange) in the Costco/Applebees parking lot at 5:30 for some eats, then head to the meeting.  I too, have space available if anyone needs to truckpool.

cougarfreak, I'm not affiliated with the Vacaville club (although I live there :smack: wasn't aware there was one)  but I would be more than happy to meet ya'll there :thumbs:  I'll prolly have one or two buddies with me at least.
:usa: Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees :usa:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. "

"I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves."
              -Ronald Reagan

Don't take life too seriously, it isn't permanent

 
 
 
 
 

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