Author Topic: 3RZFE to G52????  (Read 1746 times)

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Rcap80

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3RZFE to G52????
« on: November 30, 2006, 09:21:45 AM »
I have been looking around for a while on this swap and the consensus is that it should bolt right up to a w56 but what about a g series???  My question is has anyone done this swap??  Do I need a different bellhousing or should I find a w56, I would like to keep my gear driven transfer case.  I think that this would be a perfect swap for my 83 with 200k on my 22r.  Gains 50 in both hp and tq and little weight gain.  Also I think the g52 will handle the power a lot better than say a supra engine or 4.3 chevy.  Any thoughts or advice would be great.   THanks

79coyotefrg

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Re: 3RZFE to G52????
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 11:41:24 AM »
the 3RZ  has  almost the same torque  as a stock 4.3 chevy


but YES  the W59  aka 3RZ bell  will bolt to a G52  but dont expect a long life out of it,  if  you tow at all,  or if you are happy with the skinny pedal

Marlin has just released a new 3RZ  to R151 bellhousing, for $349 this is what I would do if i had the :bling:
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

BigMike

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Re: 3RZFE to G52????
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 02:13:08 PM »
The G- and W-series front transmission housings both have the same bolt pattern, so their bellhousings are interchangeable.

With that said, the stock Tacoma W59 bellhousing is used on any type of G- or W-series transmission, which all have the same input shaft spline count (21), length, and pilot. So the W59 Tacoma bellhousing allows for a G52, G54, and W56 to be bolted directly behind a 'RZ' engine block.

Now as for your G-series transmission, which is a G52, or the *weakest* aluminum 4WD 5-speed transmission ever used by Toyota, I HIGHLY recommend AGAINST using it or any other G-series transmission behind *especially* the 3RZ. Remember that the 3RZ has nearly the same torque output as a 3.0l V6, and putting a G52 transmission behind a 3.0 in a heavy 1995 4Runner is not something Toyota would have done.

In fact, when we did Bevin's 3RZ Swap, we swapped a 2003 3RZ into his Carburated (G54) 1985 Shortbed, and right now that transmission is on its LAST LEG. After our run up at Bald Mtn this past weekend, Bevin told me that if he doesn't get a better transmission by Christmas, he doesn't think his G54 will last into 2007. His Transmission is making so much noise that you can't even drive it above 80 MPH. The whole truck shakes and it feels like something is going to blow up. If you put it in 4th gear it sounds better, but I am sure that both his main bearings and especially the counter and 5th gear bearings have about had it.

~180 ft-lbs torque is NOT what the G-series transmission was designed for. Remember that the original Hilux G-series transmission used (the G52) was offered with an engine that only had a maximum torque output of just 129 ft-lbs.

The W56 is a lot better than the G52 and a bit better than the G54. Toyota did use the W-series transmission behind the 5M-GE power plants of the 1981+ Celica Supra, but remember that the early US-version of the fuel injected 2.8l 5M, the engine used with the first 5-speed in the W-series, the W50, developed but just 145 ft-lbs torque, or about 35 ft-lbs LESS than the 3RZ. This 5M is much more comparable to the fuel injected 22R-E, which was also fitted with a W-series transmission (the W56 of course), rated about 140 ft-lbs torque.

So when you look at how Toyota introduced the transmissions, then you can understand what they had in mind:

Transmission Introduced  Engine Used  Year  Torque Rating
L-series (L43)20R1979122 ft-lbs
L-series (L45)22R1981122 ft-lbs
L-series (L50)22R1981129 ft-lbs
L-series (L52)22R1983129 ft-lbs
G-series (G52)22R1984129 ft-lbs
G-series (G54)22R1985129 ft-lbs
W-series (W56)22R-E1985137 ft-lbs
R-series (R151F)22R-TE1986173 ft-lbs

Also, other Toyota models include, but not limited to:
Transmission Introduced  Engine Used  Year  Torque Rating  Notes
G502KD-FTV (diesel)199?147 ft-lbsVery high TQ rating for the G
First W-series (W50)5M-GE1981145 ft-lbs2WD Celica Supra, Curb Weight ~3000lbs
First R-series (R150)3VZ-E1988180 ft-lbs2WD V6 Hilux. R150 is the first in the series,
but the R151 was introduced
two years prior in the
2WD 22R-TE models

Now some like to say that Toyota "Over Engineers there vehicles", and I believe this as well, but when you compare what the transmissions were originally intended for with the torque ratings of future engines used, it is quite evident that Toyota in fact did Over Engineer their transmission, and this is evident in the W-series:

W-Series fact of "Over Engineered"
EngineModelYearTorque RatingVehicle Weight
Originally used behind a5M-GE, 2.8l I6W50, Celica Supra1981145 ft-lbs~3000 lbs
Retired with use behind a3RZ-FE, 2.7l I4W59, Tacoma2004177 ft-lbs~3400 lbs (Crew Cab)

So Toyota used the same series transmission in a vehicle (the Tacoma) that weighs apprx. 400 pounds more behind an engine that develops apprx. 35 more ft-lbs of torque than compared to the Celica Supra, which was the original vehicle used with the W-series transmission.

Now if we hold this same truth of the W-series transmission to the G-series transmission, then the "Degree of Over Engineering" required for the G-series transmission would only allow an engine of about 165 ft-lbs of torque (add 35 ft-lbs to the 1984 G52 setup). And this is only true if the G-transmission is as well built as the W-transmission, which we know it is not.

So even if we consider Toyota over engineering the G-series transmission, I would say that they would only suggest its use with engines up to 160 ft-lbs of torque. The 3RZ-FE is therefore nearly 20 ft-lbs of torque too much for the G-series transmission to be used in a "reliable" nature, if one follows my bizzar method described here.

Perhaps even more evident, but not related to our discussion, is the degree of Over Engineering of the 5-speed R-series. In this case, a 400 lb heavier vehicle is fitted with an engine that produces nearly 50 ft-lbs torque more than in the original case:
EngineModelYearTorque RatingVehicle Weight
Originally used behind a22R-TE, 2.4l I4R151F, Hilux1986173 ft-lbs~3000 lbs
Retired with use behind a5VZ-FE, 3.4l V6R150F, Tacoma2004220 ft-lbs~3400 lbs
Optional Dealer Installation behind a5VZ-FZE, TRD Supercharged 3.4l V6R150F, Tacoma1996-04~300 ft-lbs~3400 lbs

So you can buy a R-series equipped Supercharged Tacoma with a factory warrenty that exceeds the original use of the R-transmission in a Toyota truck by a good 125 ft-lbs of torque. Now that is saying something about the R-series transmission. That says something that no L-, G-, or W-series transmission could even dream about!

Well, that is my own goofed up form of Toyota Transmission logic, and if you chose to follow it or not, I had fun researching it :greengrin: :yupyup: I'm sure there must of other models that used some of the transmissions listed above that I did not mention, but for the sake of just Hiluxs and just Hilux transmissions, I think I covered it ok. :crossed:

BigMike
« Last Edit: December 02, 2006, 09:30:03 PM by BigMike »

BigMike

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Re: 3RZFE to G52????
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 02:42:56 PM »
I should mention that the R-series is also used in the T100, which might be heavier than a crew cab Tacoma?

Also, I said that the R-series (5spd) is retired with the 2004 Tacoma, however I believe the 5-speed R-series transmission lives on in the 2005+ Tacoma 2.7l 2TR-FE engine.

Also a 6-speed version of the R-series transmission (the R16x) is used on the 2005+ 4.0l Tacoma V6.

Rcap80 [OP]

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Re: 3RZFE to G52????
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 03:25:38 PM »
Wow, thanks for the info. Will an R series bolt to my transfer case?  And last question is how much better is the gear case than the chain case?  I am scanning the classifieds for a totaled taco or runner and would it just be better to swap the whole drivetrain engine/tranny/case.
Because my truck still runs good I have all the time in the world to gather the required parts so in other words what would be your guys ideal setup? 
3.4 vs 2.7 vs 4.3 vs other.  with what tranny/case.  (No automatics)
Thanks Rob


I should say that this is on an 83 22r g52 tranny with 8 inches of lift and 35's used about 70% on road and 30% off.  It still has the stock 4.10's but I am going to be upgrading to 5.29's with a spool in front and limited slip in back.

BigMike

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Re: 3RZFE to G52????
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2006, 05:43:18 PM »
Wow, you've been running a carburated '83 with 35" tires AND 4.10's!!! :sofa: Crazy

Well, if you are going to compare the Gear Drive t/case vs. the Chain Drive t/case then immediately I will say that the Chain Drive t/case is much stronger. Not only is it stronger, but it can shift on the fly via syncros.

Now as for your transfercase, fortunately, when Toyota first introduced the R-series transmission in 1986, it was behind a 'R' engine that used the familiar RF1A Gear Drive t/case. All other R-series 4WD transmissions use the VF1x Chain Drive t/cases, and an adapter must be used in order to convert those transmissions to use a Gear Drive t/case (such as our 30-4GT and 34-4GT adapters).

The R151F (1986-87) 5-speed transmission has the correct 6-bolt mount pattern for the 1979-1995 Gear Drive t/case, but it uses a special "Turbo" 23-spline input gear.

Pictured below is the 23-Spline Turbo Input Gear, featuring the Marlin Crawler World's Exclusive Total Spline™ Technology, 2.28:1 Gear Ratio:


In addition to the Turbo-style 1986-87 Gear Drive T/case having this special 23-spline input gear, it also uses the Early-Type Forward Shifting Style Shift Rods, found in all 1984-88 4cyl T/cases. Your 1983 T/case uses Top Style Shift Rods, however both the 23-spline input gear and the 1984-88 style Top Shift Rods are interchangeable.

Please see the Marlin Crawler Gear Drive Transfercase Bible for more info.

FYI, your 1983 T/case is most likely the more common Type 1-B, and the R151F Turbo T/case is a Type 4 T/case.

Let me know if this answers your questions. :thumbs:
BTW, why do you have 8 inches of lift? I fit 37x13.5 rubbers under my 1981 1st gen with a 5" combined lift (4" suspension & 1" body) without any fender or cab clearancing. :gap:

BigMike
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 05:48:51 PM by BigMike »

Rcap80 [OP]

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Re: 3RZFE to G52????
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2006, 07:23:21 AM »
It might not be 8 inches, It was actually lifted when I bought it and I know it has a 3 inch body lift and a suspension lift but not entirely sure how high, it might be maybe only a 3 inch suspension lift.  The more I think about it though it is probably in the 5-6 range, not to sure though.  The reason I thought it had around 8 is because I had a xj b4 this and I lifted it 6 inches just to clear 33's. (I know it is unibody though and from the factory sits a lot lower).     

Oddmar

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Re: 3RZFE to G52????
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 07:56:42 PM »
So, Mike, i've got this transmission that was behind a '95 3.0 3VZE...to clarify, you're saying it's an R150 5-speed, that it's designed to handle 180ft. lbs. of torque, and you guys make a 23 spline input shaft so i can put a gear driven dual ultimate behind it?

So i should hang onto this transmission for when i do my 3RZ swap?....
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