Author Topic: The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread (Read 896786 times)

THK Matt · « **Reply #210 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 11:29:31 AM »

Quote from: wslytoy on Feb 19, 2009, 11:22:29 AM

Since when... Painless wouldn't even consider a 5vz harness when I emailed them about that.

meaning make your own

have BigMike make you one

TIMS89CRAWLER · « **Reply #211 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 01:12:48 PM »

painless does not make a harness!! just make it yourself it is easy as hell and you only need like 3 plugs from a tacoma in a wrecking yard and look up the schematics! ors's harness was an overpriced joke in my opinion

wslytoy · « **Reply #212 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 02:41:49 PM »

Quote from: Lucky HO on Feb 19, 2009, 11:29:31 AM

meaning make your own
have BigMike make you one

Ok, I misunderstood. However, I do think it's kinda ridiculous that Painless isn't even remotely interested in something like this. I've already got my 3RZ harness from ORS, so I'm good to go.

TIMS89CRAWLER · « **Reply #213 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 03:51:26 PM »

I cant believe people spend $700 on a harness from ors...... it is unbelievably easy to wire these motors up.....you can have it running with like 4 wires

wslytoy · « **Reply #214 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 07:24:40 PM »

Quote from: TIMS89CRAWLER on Feb 19, 2009, 03:51:26 PM

I cant believe people spend $700 on a harness from ors...... it is unbelievably easy to wire these motors up.....you can have it running with like 4 wires

well, some of us are better w/ wiring than others. You're obviously better at it than I am. Wiring schematics make me lose my religion.

boggerunner · « **Reply #215 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 08:25:25 PM »

im working on the swap, and am wondering how much the oil pan/pickup tube and all the parts to go with it costed.

wslytoy · « **Reply #216 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 09:01:31 PM »

Quote from: boggerunner on Feb 19, 2009, 08:25:25 PM

im working on the swap, and am wondering how much the oil pan/pickup tube and all the parts to go with it costed.

get them from a salvage yard and they'll be a lot cheaper. Of course you'll have order you pick up tube gasket from Toyota, but a used oil pan never hurt anyone. The dipstick tube might be hard to come by used, they're a major beotch to take out once they're in the block.

87pickup · « **Reply #217 on:** Feb 28, 2009, 04:39:02 PM »

Quote from: TIMS89CRAWLER on Feb 19, 2009, 03:51:26 PM

I cant believe people spend $700 on a harness from ors...... it is unbelievably easy to wire these motors up.....you can have it running with like 4 wires

I lick balls at wiring and by the looks of the notes big mike has on this site it looks to be a bit more involved. Give me a tubing bender and a welder anyday but a solder gun and wiring schematic and i get a headache.

TIMS89CRAWLER · « **Reply #218 on:** Feb 28, 2009, 10:48:51 PM »

understood man! $Beer Chug\'n$

E-9 · « **Reply #219 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 06:08:48 AM »

It would be great if one of you guys with the knowledge posted a wiring schematic to build a plug in harness for this conversion. It would be easy to do from that point.

ChrisA · « **Reply #220 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 08:18:53 PM »

BigMike, (or anyone else who may know)

I read through EVERYTHING.....thats right, everything. And I still can't figure out how to get the tach to work in my '82 3rz('99 Tacoma) swap. How did you end up getting it to work? In one post you said 'no go' and the next thing i knew you said it was working. I just ran the wire from the ECU that was labeled as "for tach" in my wiring diagram straight to the tach wire that I believed was for the tach signal. and guess what.....it doesn't work.

Did you have any trouble with the charge light? mine seems to stay on even though the alternator is charging.

I'm going to make an appointment with the ref next week(that is if I can get this simple stuff outta the way)

thanks mucho!!!!

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #221 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 10:31:26 PM »

So I am re-building a 3RZ bottom end for the swap in my '94 and I'm trying LCEs balance shaft delete. Supposed to free up like 15 horse power. I need somebody to race with afterwords to find out if it's true...

Has anybody else tried it?

wslytoy · « **Reply #222 on:** Mar 06, 2009, 05:24:49 AM »

Quote from: H8PVMNT on Mar 05, 2009, 10:31:26 PM

So I am re-building a 3RZ bottom end for the swap in my '94 and I'm trying LCEs balance shaft delete. Supposed to free up like 15 horse power. I need somebody to race with afterwords to find out if it's true...

Has anybody else tried it?

I thought about it when I was rebuilding my 3RZ, but I was kinda scared to do it. What all is required to compensate for the balance shafts?

wslytoy · « **Reply #223 on:** Mar 09, 2009, 07:49:43 AM »

To avoid starting a new thread, I'll post this in here... seeing as how this is the database for the 3RZ swap

. Anywho, I'm swapping my 96 3RZ into my 85' 4Runner that came w/ a 22RE & automatic. I'm going to run an R150, so of course I've done all the necessary mods for the pedals and clutch master. The clutch start cancel switch, are the automatic equipped trucks already prewired for that or is that something I will have to wire up myself? Is the button pedal bracket for the clutch pedal, is that the button for the clutch call cancel wiring or is that something totally different and it needs to be wired up in order to start? I'm using an ORS swap harness and I'm not getting ANY power to the EFI pump unless I run a wire straight from the battery to the hot wire. I know on my 22RE, I had to run the jumper wire mod in order for my 22RE to run. I have since cut those wires back. Since it's still the same fuel pump, should I locate those wires and solder them together? I can't get the engine to turn over AT ALL. I'm going to let my optima sit on the charger over night tonight to see if that effects anything. It has enough power to run the dash lights, but it may not be enough to get the starter to turn over. Now, I realize if I had kept the 22RE and put in a 5spd, I would have to do trick the computer into thinking the truck was in drive or neutral at all times in order to crank. But, through my research online, that consists of messing w/ the harness in the engine bay. I no longer have the 22RE engine harness(for the most part). Can someone kinda direct me on this.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #224 on:** Mar 09, 2009, 08:23:49 AM »

BigMike knows, far more than I do about wiring, Let me try to get his attention for you guys.

BigMike · « **Reply #225 on:** Mar 09, 2009, 09:28:20 AM »

Quote from: ChrisA on Mar 05, 2009, 08:18:53 PM

And I still can't figure out how to get the tach to work in my '82 3rz('99 Tacoma) swap. How did you end up getting it to work?

I have only wired up a single coil (distributor) style (1995-97) setup, Marlin's and mine. I did wire in Bevin's 2003 quad coil setup, but of course his 1984 Hilux single-coil tach is not compatible with a quad coil igniter signal.

I believe the best advise for this is to get the correct tach brain from a same year Tacoma, in your case a 1999, and then install that brain into your older hilux instrument cluster.

The only catch is that the sweep angle of each tach must be the same. For instance, and this is just a hypothetical example, If the Tacoma's tach reads 4,000 RPM at 12 o'clock and your Hilux tach reads 4,000 RPM at 1 o'clock, then the arrow/pointer will be in the right place but the numbers will be off. So when the arrow thinks it is pointing at 4,000 RPM, in your Hilux is might only be pointing at 3,500 RPM, in this particular scenario.

I have not looked that deep into this yet. I've asked Bevin (blane525) to find and buy a 2003 instrument cluster complete but he says he can't find them or they are waaaaay expensive.

I am also worried that the tach brain might be integrated with some circuit board that runs other gauges, which case it would not be a simple swap plug'n'play.

Quote from: wslytoy on Mar 09, 2009, 07:49:43 AM

The clutch start cancel switch, are the automatic equipped trucks already prewired for that or is that something I will have to wire up myself?

I am not sure about this. I know that Toyota likes to use 1 harness for many different configurations and then leave plugs dangling in the air when not used. For instance, if you have a non Delux or non SR5 2nd gen pickup then it won't have a clock. However, I have never seen a 2nd gen truck without the plug for the clock. So, if you go to the junk yard and find a clock, all you have to do is plug it in and you are done. No wiring required.

This might be the case with your 4Runner, however, I am leaning to the fact that Autos have a different chassis harness and have additional features (such as overdrive lockout) that a 5spd would never have, regardless of options. So I think if it was not an option on your truck, which is the case for you as you can never purchase an Auto truck with a clutch start cancel switch, I believe you will have to wire it in.

Of course this switch is entirely optional. If you don't want to use it then just bypass the switch.

Quote

Is the button pedal bracket for the clutch pedal, is that the button for the clutch call cancel wiring or is that something totally different and it needs to be wired up in order to start?

That switch is only used for the clutch start cancel feature. The 22R-E ECU has no idea when the clutch is engaged or disengaged, ie. there are no other circuits that use that pedal switch besides the clutch start cancel.

Quote

I'm using an ORS swap harness and I'm not getting ANY power to the EFI pump unless I run a wire straight from the battery to the hot wire. I know on my 22RE, I had to run the jumper wire mod in order for my 22RE to run.

What is this jumper wire you speak of? Did you buy the truck dead on arrival? Remember that the Opening Circuit Rely is what powers the fuel pump. Make sure the OCR relay is present and also that it is grounded. You could always tap into the ignition ON circuit and have the pump powered whenever the key is in the ON position, but this is unnecessary. What if you only turned the key to the ON position to roll up your windows. Now your poor battery would have to power the windows AND the fuel pump, and the fuel pump would be building unncessary fuel pressure for no reason, wearing itself out.

On the bright side, at least in your case, it is rather easy to R&R a fuel pump in a 1st gen 4Runner.

Quote

I can't get the engine to turn over AT ALL.

This sounds more like an electrical power supply issue. Have you grounded out your original park safety switch? Remember your Auto would NOT start unless it was in Park (or maybe Neutral). Since you no longer have the Auto shift mechanism, you can no longer shift into Park, so you must bypass that safety feature before ANY voltage can be sent to your starter.

I highly recommend using a test light and a volt meter and start checking all of the knowns. We know that any black wire with a red stripe and any black wire with an orange stripe will ONLY have +12 volts when the key is in the ON position. We also know that any white wire will have +12 volts all the time regardless of key position. As for the white wire with a red stripe, be careful as some ignition ON circuits use white-red wires as well as "always-on" circuits that have +12v (regardless of key position) use white-red wires.

So simply assuming that any white-red wire will always have +12v regardless of key position will cause your battery to go dead after 2 or 3 days of vehicle storage since it will be powering certain relays and solenoids that should only be powered when the key is in the ON position.

Also we know that any brown wire and any white wire with a black stripe will ALWAYS no matter what be grounds or -12 volts.

So start hunting around the wires and use your test light and volt meter. For instance, when ever you see a white wire with a black stripe, double check that it is grounded. If it is not grounded, trace the problem back and see what is wrong, etc.

Mike

wslytoy · « **Reply #226 on:** Mar 09, 2009, 11:33:27 AM »

Quote from: BigMike on Mar 09, 2009, 09:28:20 AM

I am not sure about this. I know that Toyota likes to use 1 harness for many different configurations and then leave plugs dangling in the air when not used. For instance, if you have a non Delux or non SR5 2nd gen pickup then it won't have a clock. However, I have never seen a 2nd gen truck without the plug for the clock. So, if you go to the junk yard and find a clock, all you have to do is plug it in and you are done. No wiring required.

This might be the case with your 4Runner, however, I am leaning to the fact that Autos have a different chassis harness and have additional features (such as overdrive lockout) that a 5spd would never have, regardless of options. So I think if it was not an option on your truck, which is the case for you as you can never purchase an Auto truck with a clutch start cancel switch, I believe you will have to wire it in.

Of course this switch is entirely optional. If you don't want to use it then just bypass the switch.

10-4

Quote

That switch is only used for the clutch start cancel feature. The 22R-E ECU has no idea when the clutch is engaged or disengaged, ie. there are no other circuits that use that pedal switch besides the clutch start cancel.
What is this jumper wire you speak of? Did you buy the truck dead on arrival? Remember that the Opening Circuit Rely is what powers the fuel pump. Make sure the OCR relay is present and also that it is grounded. You could always tap into the ignition ON circuit and have the pump powered whenever the key is in the ON position, but this is unnecessary. What if you only turned the key to the ON position to roll up your windows. Now your poor battery would have to power the windows AND the fuel pump, and the fuel pump would be building unncessary fuel pressure for no reason, wearing itself out.

On the bright side, at least in your case, it is rather easy to R&R a fuel pump in a 1st gen 4Runner.

This is what the jumper that I was referring to

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/index.shtml#FuelPump
When I got my 4Runner, this yellow relay was MIA. They had some SERIOUS rigging done on this truck.

I replaced that and did the jumper wire mod and it would crank up every time no problems. Before they had a switch directly to the starter, basically bypassing the ignition... all due to the relay being bad

Quote

This sounds more like an electrical power supply issue. Have you grounded out your original park safety switch? Remember your Auto would NOT start unless it was in Park (or maybe Neutral). Since you no longer have the Auto shift mechanism, you can no longer shift into Park, so you must bypass that safety feature before ANY voltage can be sent to your starter.

I highly recommend using a test light and a volt meter and start checking all of the knowns. We know that any black wire with a red stripe and any black wire with an orange stripe will ONLY have +12 volts when the key is in the ON position. We also know that any white wire will have +12 volts all the time regardless of key position. As for the white wire with a red stripe, be careful as some ignition ON circuits use white-red wires as well as "always-on" circuits that have +12v (regardless of key position) use white-red wires.

So simply assuming that any white-red wire will always have +12v regardless of key position will cause your battery to go dead after 2 or 3 days of vehicle storage since it will be powering certain relays and solenoids that should only be powered when the key is in the ON position.

Also we know that any brown wire and any white wire with a black stripe will ALWAYS no matter what be grounds or -12 volts.

So start hunting around the wires and use your test light and volt meter. For instance, when ever you see a white wire with a black stripe, double check that it is grounded. If it is not grounded, trace the problem back and see what is wrong, etc.

Mike

And this is where I get confused b/c I was under the impression that the neutral/drive lock was on the engine harness. Now that the 22RE is gone, I no longer have that harness on the truck. Should I start looking at the plug for the transmission ecm? Thanks Mike, you're a HUGE help.

ChrisA · « **Reply #227 on:** Mar 12, 2009, 10:14:07 AM »

All,

I got my first gen SR5 Tach working with my dual coil 3RZ using the 10ohm resistor method....just so ya know, it WORKS!

Don't know how accurate it is yet, but i'm going to connect the computer tonight and i'll let ya know.

yotatough · « **Reply #228 on:** Mar 12, 2009, 08:45:42 PM »

I'm looking into swaping my 22-re out for somthing else. I read the first couple pages of this and didn't see it, but is the 2rz just as compatable as the 3rz is? What I mean is, I'd like to find a complete truck to get everything from, can I look for 2 wheel drives as well? Will everything else be the same?

BUDDERS · « **Reply #229 on:** Mar 13, 2009, 07:03:36 AM »

The flywheel on a 2rz has a slightly smaller diameter surface for the clutch to engage on, hence less holding force for the clutch.

jmsdad · « **Reply #230 on:** Mar 13, 2009, 08:48:47 AM »

For anyone thinking about a 5VZ-FE swap...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/pts/1072553761.html

mtnyota · « **Reply #231 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 11:30:28 AM »

Has anyone had any trouble getting this swap through the smog ref? I failed the inspection due to my evap hooked up wrong, and that I didn't have the exhaust routed exaclty like the '97 donor vehicle. My exhaust is routed so that the stock down pipe and 1st o2 sensor is used and then it crosses under the trans to the driver side. After that it runs into the cat then the 2nd o2 behind the cat. Similar to all the swaps i have seen. The ref says that I can't make any modifications to the exhaust until after the 2nd o2 sensor. Anyone have any info that can help me out?

wslytoy · « **Reply #232 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 11:56:47 AM »

Quote from: mtnyota on Mar 19, 2009, 11:30:28 AM

Has anyone had any trouble getting this swap through the smog ref? I failed the inspection due to my evap hooked up wrong, and that I didn't have the exhaust routed exaclty like the '97 donor vehicle. My exhaust is routed so that the stock down pipe and 1st o2 sensor is used and then it crosses under the trans to the driver side. After that it runs into the cat then the 2nd o2 behind the cat. Similar to all the swaps i have seen. The ref says that I can't make any modifications to the exhaust until after the 2nd o2 sensor. Anyone have any info that can help me out?

Sounds like your ref is being a Richard. Ask him to explain how aftermarket companies make cat4ward and catback exhaust systems... Technically they're modifications to your exhaust before your 1st O2 sensor and after your 2nd O2 sensor.

jmsdad · « **Reply #233 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 12:29:12 PM »

Where are you located? and which Ref location did you go to?

I'm taking the 4Runner in to the ref next week and like you, I'm a bit worried about my exhaust routing too. I assume the exhaust location/routing is a new law that went into effect this year? There is a thread on YotaTech with a guy in SoCal having the same problem with the exhaust routing as you do. He eventually re-did the exhaust so it routes down the passenger side to get it to pass. The least you can do is contact the head referee and see what he says.--INFO below

Here is a PM from Johnathan (RanchoToyTrucks) on Pirate4x4.com...

Quote from: RanchoToytrucks

This is the bar station I always go to they are better than the one on Northgate.

The Main BAR number is 1-800-622-7733. There is a North Natomas test site and a Florin Road site. I passed at the Florin Road Site. The Address is 2401 Florin Road. Take 99 to Florin Road WEST ( Exit 293B) go West about 2miles.

The test center is in the same building as some Adult Technical School. Park outside the gate and go in the side door and you will enter a class room set up, to the right is a counter that BAR uses. They will take your keys and info and bring the vehicle into the test area. Public is not allowed to watch unless they invite you in to show you something. So you hang out in this class room area until they are finished.

If you have problems. The Head Referee is John Baltazar. His phone is 491-4461, or email jbaltazar@foundationccc.org. I spoke to John a few times and he is the one that can over rule the test center guys. I found him to be fair and knowlegable.

When you call the 800 number they will have the times open for appointment.

BUDDERS · « **Reply #234 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 12:42:48 PM »

Awe crap. If that's the case, then I'm screwed too. I've had mine running for a few months now but haven't gotten it smogged because I still need to install a rear O2 sensor. I hope my ref is a little more lenient.

mtnyota · « **Reply #235 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 12:49:01 PM »

Quote from: jmsdad on Mar 19, 2009, 12:29:12 PM

Where are you located? and which Ref location did you go to?

I'm in San Jose. I went to the ref at evergreen college.

Forfunner · « **Reply #236 on:** Mar 21, 2009, 03:58:36 AM »

BigMike, I've checked all the links and have read them over and over but can't seem to find any wiring diagrams based of your notes for 3rd gen 3RZ conversion's. I'm in the process of searching for the right engine and have found one from an 03 Taco with 16,000 on the clock. Im also considering leaving my 4runner as an automatic by swaping out bellhousing's, any suggestions (HELP) in regards to this would be appreciated. Thanks.

Gus.

ChrisA · « **Reply #237 on:** Mar 24, 2009, 09:10:25 AM »

BUDDERS, I talked to the head Ref at the Miramar Station and he seems like a pretty friendly reasonable guy.

I actually asked him about the crossover pipe set-up. I explained to him that there was no other way to effectively route the exhaust being that we have a fuel tank on the passenger side, and that the first O2 sensor is right before the CAT and the 2nd is Directly behind. He said he understood and that it sounded passing. He added, "make sure it looks as professional as possible." I forget this dude's name......but he is the Ref at the Miramar College station. I'm gonna go see him when I get off travel. I'll let ya know how dis goes.

BUDDERS · « **Reply #238 on:** Mar 24, 2009, 10:52:17 AM »

Quote from: ChrisA on Mar 24, 2009, 09:10:25 AM

BUDDERS, I talked to the head Ref at the Miramar Station and he seems like a pretty friendly reasonable guy.

I actually asked him about the crossover pipe set-up. I explained to him that there was no other way to effectively route the exhaust being that we have a fuel tank on the passenger side, and that the first O2 sensor is right before the CAT and the 2nd is Directly behind. He said he understood and that it sounded passing. He added, "make sure it looks as professional as possible." I forget this dude's name......but he is the Ref at the Miramar College station. I'm gonna go see him when I get off travel. I'll let ya know how dis goes.

Cool, that's where I was planning on taking mine. I may have talked to the same guy. I talked to a BAR guy that came by my old shop to check our smog machine periodically. I told him about my 3rz being from a 2004 and about me using a 2001 wirring harness and evap setup and he said it should be good as long as it burns cleaner than my old 22re.

I know the main teacher from the Toyota program down there. I graduated from that program a few years back, in fact, he even wanted me to apply for a teaching position there.

mtnyota · « **Reply #239 on:** Mar 24, 2009, 11:58:05 AM »

If you guys can get any of these contact names/ numbers for me it'd be great. So far I am being told that there can be no modifications until after the 2nd o2. Even though I'm putting out 1/5 of the emissions as the 22re did 2 yrs ago. This just makes no sense.

BigMike [OP]

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