Topic: BigMike's Big Summer Project: REVIVED!

[synwars]

you are gonna weld the pivot plate straight to the housing without a spring perch  with no perch  say bye to your housing  it will punch through.  or peel it like a banana . theres not enough material there to support that.  thats why spring perches have a arched cutout like they do

I don't think that's what he is gonna do. Come on, give him a little more credit than that. Who would weld a plate onto a tube without gusseting, and still think it would hold? I think he just means he is going to lower the height of the axle perch.

[CTENG in KS]

BigMike,
I would try a smaller bolt size...set up like that, the double shear strength of a grade 8 bolt will be PLENTY...drop down an 1/8 or so and increase the tube wall...unless of course you want two inch blocks in the back, then just get str8 beef!

[synwars]

BigMike,
I would try a smaller bolt size...set up like that, the double shear strength of a grade 8 bolt will be PLENTY...drop down an 1/8 or so and increase the tube wall...unless of course you want two inch blocks in the back, then just get str8 beef!

That's some MCD beef right thar.

[CTENG in KS]

:sling blade voice:  Mmmmm Hmmmmm  :sling blade voice:

[Willy Mammoth]

Do you have a rear trac bar in there yet? If not that may be why your .20 DOM tubing busted, too much torque on such a thin piece of tubing. It looks like it tore from one end to the other, just like when you get axle wrap.

Think about it, you have more power from your engine going to your axle (nevermind triple t-cases) which is now attached to softer springs via weaker perch material ie .20" x 4" (roughly) new perch vs .25" x 5.5" old perch. If you don't have a trac bar coming I would think about one, or at least use .375" DOM next time. Even then, a trac bar would serve well to prevent that from happening again.

My .

PS - Have a great trip! Sounds like fun.

Something else to think about is there was two tubes on the top, but only one on the bottom.

This will work the one on the bottom more. Try to make them so there is two tubes on both top and bottom and at least 1/4" wall.

It was axle wrap that killed it.

I am ordering a on board welder before we come out that way.

[BigMike [OP]]

IronClad,

Right now I have these pirches on my axle:


I was using those with a U-Bolt flip kit.

Then when I installed the Pivot block, I just slapped the pivot block setup right on top of those axle pirches.

That isn't such a bad thing, but the problem is that those pirches still leave like a 1/2" air gap between the pirch and the axle housing.

So what I want to do is take those same pirches again, and trim down the radius section, so that the metal sits flush with the top of the axle housing. Then I will weld the center pipe for the pivot block directly to the top of the spring pirch.

So don't worry, it will be well supported just like it is now, but without the air gap.


CTENG in KS,
That is a good idea. Originally, I did not like how short the bolts that I got were. With the nut torqued down, there was no threads showing at all. So I loctited the nuts and also welded a small booger from the center of the bolt to the nut to make sure it never comes loose. But what I wanted to do, was drill out like a 1/4" hole through the bolt, run a die on it to clean up the treads, and then put a cotter pin in there to make sure the nut doesn't fall off.

So when I make them again, I will be using bolts that are about 1" longer so I can have plenty of threads showing. So I will see about what bolt diameter to use when I get some bolts

Try to make them so there is two tubes on both top and bottom

WM,

That's a good idea, but I would have to use 5 tube sections to do it right.

See, the good thing about using three sections is this.......

     **--**
a    oo   oo      b

         oo
      --**--


The lower plate has 1 tube in the center, and the top plate has 2 tubes at each end. This is ideal because when you bolt down the nut, both the nut and the bolt head are connected to the upper plate (at points a & b) so when the pivot pivots, the bolt and nut move together, so there is no chance for the nut to come loose.

But if you had four pipes,

         --**--**
           oo   oo      b

  a     oo   oo
        **--**--

Now the bolt head is at point 'a' and the nut is at point 'b', which are no longer connected to the same plate. So when it pivots, the pivoting action could very well walk the nut right off of the bolt, since they would be moving in different directions.

So I need to keep it with an odd number of tubes, 3, 5, 7, etc.

But the longer the pivot block becomes, the less articulation I will get. Sure it will prevent axle wrap, but I will build an anti wrap bar for that.

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions guys
Keep 'em coming!

[CTENG in KS]

I was actually talking about the diameter of the bolt...a bolt in double shear like that is hella strong...grade 8 please (or better)....I mean you could use a smaller diameter bolt in order to add wall thickness to the tubing without ending up with a gigundous lift block.

[synwars]

I was actually talking about the diameter of the bolt...a bolt in double shear like that is hella strong...grade 8 please (or better)....I mean you could use a smaller diameter bolt in order to add wall thickness to the tubing without ending up with a gigundous lift block.

Two reasons:

First, the smaller the diameter of the bolt, the less the pivot. The larger the diameter, the more it pivots.

Second, why risk it shearing when he can drop the axle perch still giving it more room for DOM thickness??? That way both are BEEF.
 

[CTENG in KS]

I'm just throwing out options...
I aint running them...I like the beef better, but lift may be an issue for some..

[BigMike [OP]]

yeah, I got it, I was also refering to the diameter of the bolt:

I will see about what bolt diameter to use when I get some bolts

the smaller the diameter of the bolt, the less the pivot

synwars, good point!!! I wasn't even thinking about that

[MiniSimp]

Talk to Dave yet?

[BigMike [OP]]

Talk to Dave yet?

I called but Dave had already gone home for the day. They open back up at 9am so I will give him a call tomorrow while I am waiting in the airport terminal

[Ruggedjeep]

Yup, I was looking at that, and I think I am going to trim just a little bit from the inner fenders. I met a super cool Cherokee owner who had some sweet hood vents on. I could tell that it was home made and I talked to him about it, and he told me they were from a late 80s Chrysler Turbo Lebaron...

They are metal and look really good on a Truck hood.








So does anyone notice anything wrong with my truck in the last picture I posted?

Ive got those vents on my XJ very sturdy and make a big differance.

[BigMike [OP]]

Ruggedjeep!
Excellet picture Coming down the Big Sluice to boot

I am gonna go that route, and also I am going to trim back about half of my inner fender walls.

I've got a LOT to do when I get back to America, between then and the Round Up (in Sept.).

Here is the mandatory list right now:
-Remove IFS P/S Box and Properly Brace Frame
--While the box is off, I will rebuild it since it has been leaking every since I installed it (it was used).
-Scrap the Front Range Crossmember and build one like on our Formula Toy Buggy.
--I believe that the Front Range Crossmember is an EXCELLENT crossmember, but I just don't like it on a Triple T/case setup. Its just too much weight, and too much length between it and the engine mounts. I want to build something in the middle of it all, like underneat the #2 case.
-Since I will be redoing my crossmember, it gives me a chance to relocate my engine to better clear my front diff, as I mounted the engine a bit to low when I did the conversion (something I learned from and did Bevin's and Marlin's 3RZ just perfectly).
--Well, since I'll have the option of moving the engine, then I can change my drag link (add a slight bend to it) so I can properly clear my oil pan.
---So I can get a new oil pan and oil pick up tube from the dealer and replace all of that mess. No more low oil pressure on extreme angles.
---But if I move the engine around, then I will most likely have to modify my exhaust system

And here is the optional list of things to do:
-Install hood vents and trim my inner fender walls to cool down the engine bay.
-With the clearance between my steering-to-engine solved, I can increase my front end uptravel by remounting my lower shock mounts and adding bump stops.
-I can rebuild my pivot blocks *IF I HAVE TIME* but I don't have to. I could just weld up the drivers side one (the remaining good one) and they would just act like 1.5" blocks.
--But I REALLY REALLY want to show this idea of having pivot blocks off to everyone at the Round Up, so I would really like to have this finished by then, but I can still go wheeling without rebuilding them, so I don't *have* to do that yet.
-I want to get my Cd player installed if time allows.

And the "Its optional for me but.....":
-I have recently come across an Electric Locking High Pinion diff and I would like to use it in the front (of course). Well, Bevin really would like to attend the Round Up, but he only has a Crawler and a rear locker right now. I am sure that he can do the trail, but I would like for him to have as much fun as possible, so what I can do is remove my front Locrite, and install it into Bevin's front end, and then modify my front housing and slap in the E-Locker. Of course I would rebuild both knuckles just for shits and giggles, and have it all painted and purty. But this is optional for me, but I would like to do it for Bevin.
--But alas, this would be a good time to do in case I need to modify my exhaust system because I am going to remount my engine, then I could modify the exhaust to make sure that it will clear the raised driveline of the High Pinion differential, as I have already whacked my front d-line to my exhaust at least one time.

Anyways, I I'll be back on Monday the 24th, so hopefully I will dive right in and get these things finished for the Round Up



Busy every summer

I always think "Man, this summer is gonna be great. I'll have plenty of time for playing sports and cleaning my room" and it never happens

Cya later
BigMike

[BigMike [OP]]

Updates coming soon

[CTENG in KS]

tease

[brainlessfool]

tease

what he said!

[MiniSimp]

Take your time Mike!

[BigMike [OP]]

I really don't anything to add so far.... I am pretty much taking MiniSimp's advice full heartedly

Right now we are trying to get some rigs registered for Sierra Trek (regis. ends tomorrow!!) and the shop wants me to take my truck there. So I think for the time being, I will remove my good pivot and the broken pivot and just put some 1.5" blocks in there. I want to remove my crossmember and fix it right but continue to run it, for now. Then I want to swap in a new oil pan and pickup tube and make modifications to my drag link and my p/s box to clear my engine....

Basically I think it has come down to this.......

I am not going to do any snow runs this winter. Instead I will spend my time and $$ getting my rig ready for summer time so that I can actually use it during summer time

I suppose being gone to Japan already for 3 months in the past year didn't help me with my truck. But atleast for now the traveling is over and my baby gets to return to Cali for good.

I should start working on my truck by this weekend, I will take many pics as always. I did some work to Bevins truck all day yesterday and I've got some pics to update his post with. I need to add my Japan pics to my Japan thread too 

[BigMike [OP]]

Hey guys, I've got lots to update but no time to show it all here.

I will be up at Coyote and Red Lakes this Saturday, I ran Shut Eye peak last Saturday, and right now my truck has been up on jack stands for 4 days

Updates Sunday

[854RUN]

Mike it looks like your red dress got cot in the door. 










Just kidding, did you get the perches fix yet? Any more pics? 

[854RUN]

100th post  ooo hooo!   (sorry mike i got excited) i know

[BigMike [OP]]

Mike it looks like your red dress got cot in the door. 










Just kidding, did you get the perches fix yet? Any more pics? 

hahahaha that is actually an orange ratchet-strap for my Klein Mtn bike because I have not installed a nice bike rack yet

100th post  ooo hooo!   (sorry mike i got excited) i know

Nice

[854RUN]

OK Mike you call it a ratchet-strap   . truck looking good Mike 

[Cheesemaker]

Say hi to the mosquito's for me.  I miss them terribly!  NOT!  Well, have fun and I wish I lived closer!     It was so beautiful in and around Coyote!  Around here it's all brush under the trees and can't see 5' off the road!  So take some good pics and post them!  Thanks

[toynorcal]

BigMike, I really dig those pivot blocks. I can't wait to see the final product.

I have been putting some thought into the design for my own rig as a winter project. Aside from the thicker DOM and track-bar which are great points. I use my rig as a DD, I don't know if you still do. Anyways, I wanted to avoid the same type of break you had on the trail, but I was worried about it happening while going over railroad tracks and such after a rough trail ride. You had said that if you had u-bolts it would have been an easy fix, bolt up and go... well why not put that in the design?

Making the pivot block a dual use item, you could use the same bolt diameter (or close to it) for the pivoting blocks as you would for the u-bolts and in close to the original locations. There may be need for a shim on the sides, I haven't really taken any measurements. But I was thinking something like this...



The left hand side shows how your set up looks now and how it would be ran on the trail. The right hand side is with the u-bolt in and how you would want to run it on the highway. I figure it would take a few minuets extra while your airing down to unbolt your u-bolts and put in the pivot block bolts, but it would make for great peace of mind knowing your axle isn't going to fly out on the highway or that you could just slap the u-bolts back in on the trail and keep everyone moving if they break.

Sorry if I didn't explain well or babbled, I'm at work and was interrupted alot while writing this.
 

-John

[CTENG in KS]

Have fun lining up the holes to fit that u-bolt in with weight in the front...you will have to be on FLAT (read perfectly flat) ground for them to line up.

[AreYouSure]

Hey Mike,

since i have seen you idea of a piviot spring perch mount i have drawn up a couple ideads of making it out of a solid piece of stock.  i am gitting ready to cut the first trial set and was wondering if you would like to try them out.  they should be cut by next friday. ill have pics and every thing up after they are cut.  i was also planning to use a 3/4 in bolt in the piviot point.  at the moment it will raise the truck 5 1/2 inches and i am trying to cut that down to about 4 inches.

regards

Jeff

[toynorcal]

Have fun lining up the holes to fit that u-bolt in with weight in the front...you will have to be on FLAT (read perfectly flat) ground for them to line up.

Not trying to thread-jack here, but how would it be that difficult to put a u-bolt through?

There are only two plates, top (above the leafs) and bottom (below the leafs). Since the bottom one is wleded on and moves, I assume thats the one you are talking about when you say it would have to be on flat ground to line up. The only time I could see this being any kind of an issue is if the hinge broke on an obstical. In that case yes, I sure you would have some trouble lining up the bolts with the bottom plate while the truck sits on a 4ft. rock. Enter High-lift jack, remove weight from the pivot block, insert shims (guess I didn't put those in the picture), run u-bolts though the bottom plate, lower spring onto plate, bolt it up and your wheelin again with what would then work like a 4inch lift block. Or am I still missing your point? I really would like some feed back if you got it since I plan on building a pair in the off season.

Maybe this topic should be in it's own thread? Apologies for the long posts Mike.   

[BigMike [OP]]

Where two solid weeks of hard work has gotten me. Click on images for *slightly* larger version.


(I've so much to update! Where could I ever begin?)