Topic: How to Pass Smog

[84runner]

Here in CA you don't have to smog your off-road vehicles yet  But the do have green and red stickers I believe, green you can use all year and red only certain time of the year, that is what I have been told. And they are really trying to crack down on 2 strokes 

[Ferg]

that is one good thing about being in the miliatry you can claim residancy anywhere you want like Skul Valley UT. i dont know much about it except that it has no saftey or smog. NOTE: not a good reason to join the military

That right - it ain't for everybody....

[donkeykong]

Here in CA you don't have to smog your off-road vehicles yet  But the do have green and red stickers I believe, green you can use all year and red only certain time of the year, that is what I have been told. And they are really trying to crack down on 2 strokes 

Ya that is right but if you Green sticker it then you can not have it touch the pavement.  You cant even flat tow it. It has to be on a trailer, and it cant be parked on the road

[toyoda]

You know that's very strange to hear it passed. Straight Alcohol like that will damage the o2 sensor and also will damage the cat. It would be better to use o2 and cat safe Methanol. I’ve been squirting meth into my SC engine for a good half year-

Regards,
BigMike

So where do you get a bottle of this stuff!!

[BLUCRUZ]

1st and foremost.....Make sure you take it somewhere that does a pre-test so you don't get labled as a gross polluter.
Once you get that label you are $$screwed$$!  Then do everything listed above!

[BigMike [OP]]

1st and foremost.....Make sure you take it somewhere that does a pre-test so you don't get labled as a gross polluter.
Once you get that label you are $$screwed$$! Then do everything listed above!

Hey that's really great advise. When I was 18 and I just got my MR2 running, I took it down to a random smog shop and the guy said I would have to take it to a test only station. So when I went there, it failed big time and the guy said the cat was wasted. Sure enough, that was the problem, but I had no idea that the 1st smog shop ran it and labeled it a gross polluter. But I dont mind going to test only stations though... But if I had gone there first, this would have never happened.

[Roc Doc]

One more thing, change the oil.  Use a straight weight like 40 or 50, it will help cut down on blowby, (that of course gets routed back into your intake).  Plus the new oil won't have a bunch of nasty vapors in it that could be skewing the readings.

Doc

[Huhwhye]

The Red Sticker thing applies to 4 stroke bikes too.  It has to do with the year the bike was made.  I don't remember the cutoff but if you buy a new 4 stroke dirt bike in Cal today it will be Red Sticker.  That is total BS.  SO you are limited to when you are allowed to ride it.

[kneedownnate]

Someone said "if you run a higher octane fuel than needed it just doesn't burn as well",  entirely untrue, the fuel will essentially burn the same if not better, all higher octane is is a detonation/heat deterant.  If you run race gas it is a purer fuel and in turn should burn even cleaner, and no you will not blow your engine just by runnin race gas.  If I had a nickel for every inbred hick that used that line on me I'd have, well, several nickels.  You hear all those cars runnin around town makin that rattlin sound as they take off, wouldn't happen if they used a higher octane.  Also someone said that you wanna keep the engine temp cool cause it burns cleaner then, also not true.  Someone else noted that they let theirs fully warm up so the cat is to optimal temp which is closer.  If you've noticed newer engines run at higher temps than their predacessors, which leads to cleaner emissions.  At the higher temp there is a more complete burn resulting in cleaner emissions.  If you try and smog a truck and it barely doesn't pass and you're runnin a cold thermostat try switchin out to the highest temp one you can find and it will more likely pass.  I did it and it works.  I could be wrong, but then again I could be hung like a horse, and well................Nate

[kneedownnate]

Ok, so upon reconsideration I could be wrong on the fuel thing.  Due to the slower burn properties of higher octane fuels it can actually burn less efficiently than a low octane fuel which has less resistence to ignition and therefore offers a more complete combustion.  Sorry, insert foot in mouth,  Nate

[kingkrash81]

coleman camping fuel also works. run your gas down to a couple of gallons and pour a couple gallons of camping fuel in and you'll burn cleaner. your motor will run funny  ,but it's just to pass the test then fill your tank

[BigMike [OP]]

hey kdnate,

actually I think its better to run the best gas. If it burns slower, the chance for preignition decreases and the better quality fuel will prevent multiple detonations (pinging).

I would use some really great fuel, like premium Pro Power or something, as racing gas im sure has no consideration for emissions and its methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) levels might be bad for emissions.

Im not smart I just looked MTBE up with google

[Mike D]

The only prob with running a higher octane fuel is that a engine is set up to completly burn 87 octane fuel and leave the least ammount of unburned fuel behind and if you go and throw a fuel that takes longer to burn you will intern have fuel that has not been comepletly burned in the chamber in and it will result in a larger build up of carbon.

[kneedownnate]

BigMike,  only problem is if you're potentially retarding your timing a few degrees then preignition or detonation becomes even less of a concern, and if you're only doing it to pass smog then you can just advance it again as soon as you leave.  I'm with you on runnin better gas on a daily basis, my '91 doesn't like 87 octane, and in certain situations it lets me know with a little rattle, but doesn't do it if I run 89.  My '80 used to run whatever you poored in, even old bad gas, but since they started playin with California gas it's become more picky.  I just ran some outboard engine tuner through it and let it sit over night, then started it up and let it burn off for a few minutes before leaving the house, but I won't know if it made a difference till I go up the hill to work again and see if it detonates.  It might take a week or more to see though, I usually hafta be facing a headwind or luggin it for it to happen,   Nate

[DontStall Rockcrwl]

tried to get my truck to pass smog today i wish i read this thread before i went there.... my timing was 10 over TDC and for some reason the guy who had the truck before me installed 2 o2 sensors before the cat. if i wasnt lazy i would run out to my truck and go get the results, i would, later tonite i will post them. the CO test i think it was was what made me failed. so i adjusted the timing and tomorrow im gonna look at the o2 sensors. the guy said that it seemed like someone (hacked) into the wiring harness and added a second o2 sensor. oh yeah the truck is an 89 toy 4 cyl

[rockhound]

Tried to smog my '85 EFI 22RE yesterday.
Timing @ 3 degrees BTDC, Exhaust & intake @ .010,(loose intake, tight exhaust), idle @ 1100 rpm, MAF screw 4 turns out, changed oil and filter and filled it with Chevron 91 octane.Heater on , no fan.

   @ 1814 rpm, 15 mph test meas.
       HC @ 49 (146 is max. allowable),
       CO meas. .01 (1.04 max. allowable)
       and the NOx killed me at 1557(1136 max.).

at 25 mph, 1925 rpm,
       HC 35,
       CO .01,
       NOx 1363 ( 1222 max. allowable)

Failed on NOx. Combustion chamber temp.!
For the next attempt, I have installed new NGK BPR5EY's,  re-adjusted valves to stock specs ( .008 and .012 ), screwed MAF in to 1/2 turn out, (richer, right Mike?), left idle at 1100, backing timing out to 2 degrees BTDC, and adding 1 gallon of Methanol to a full tank of 91 octane.
I will also restrict the high flow exhaust to allow the EGR to recircle. This was suggested by Jim at PROTRUX here in town. We all have trouble with NOx.

So late spark, rich fuel mixture, cooler fuel ( ?), and restrictive exhaust.
The formula for passing smog ?, that I would never run my truck regularly as.
So what good does smogging do, really, if we can beat the system, and go back to polluting after passing?

EDIT: Last time I passed after three attempts with:
         timing at 7 degrees ATDC !
         Methanol mix and talked the tech into using a different gear for the test.

         ( also had stock tires and gearing)

[rockhound]

Tried again today and failed again, The 15 mph @ 1740 rpm barely passed @ 1131, but the tech had it in 2nd gear for the 25 mph test at 2911 rpm. That raised the NOx ppm meas. to 1589 from 1363 last time.
Next time I will decarbon, timing to 3 degreees,request a third gear test to keep the rpm's down.
What a scam!

[BigMike [OP]]

Make sure you pull that 3 degrees in the negative direction or I think your HCC will suffer (dont know about the NOx). It almost sounds like a good oil change and some better quality gas should take care of ya...

Do you have any 100+ octane stations in your area? You'll be suprised. We have 2 here in Fresno, both are 104 octane. Try to run some 76 Pro-power and add a good octane booster. This will slow down the burn and help burn up any left over carbon deposits (NOx).


I dont know if I mentioned it eariler or not, but when I had my SC going in my MR2, my MSD Knock alert monitor was quieter with the 76 91oct ProPower than with Cheveron 91oct Techron. So I would recommend 76 gas if your looking for better average octane numbers.

[rockhound]

Thanks Mike,
I filled it w/ chevron 91 octane, I'm sure I read that in your initial post, and added a gallon of methanol, that  worked 2 yrs. ago, but I also had stock muffler and tail pipe then.
Timing is set at 3 degrees BTDC. the more advanced, the higher my HCC.
I'm going to try to run this tank empty, then fill w/ 76 91 octane and add something to decarbon the valves and pistons, and run that empty.
Then I think I'll fill with 76 91 octane, add gallon of methanol, retard timing to 3 dgrees BTDC, leave the idle @ 750, and MAF screw 1/2 - 1 1/2 turns out. I may or may not restrict the exhaust. i'm not sure how much that helps. Oh yeah, the tech will test in another gear to lower the rpm. And he failed me on functional because the timing was at TDC.
How about doubling up head gaskets to reduce compression?
If the head was shaved on rebuild, wouldn't the increased compression raise the combustion chamber temp, directly affecting NOx?

[BigMike [OP]]

Sure higher compression does increase the chamber temps, but (guessing) your engine is already a bit, and if you were to rebuild it, then you wouldnt have to worry about these things anyhow. So just run the stock head gasket-

A quick way to decarbonise it, is to get a simple water spray bottle, like what you might use to iron you clothes with, fill it with 50/50 water/methanol. Remove your air filter, and hold the throttle open to about 2000 rpm with one hand, and then with the other, just start squirting as much liquid as possible directly into the intake. It'll be like a really really hot steam bath for your cylinders and the alchol will help eat away crap.

I did this to my ex-gf's Tercel when it failed smog. I pumped the entire bottle into her puney engine. It did pass the next day, but just barely, so I am not convinced that this actually does any good, but I felt better after doing it so I guess its just something else to try because I hate having to go in for retest after retest...

Good luck man

[rockhound]

Details. Heater on would help engine run cooler. With EFI, wouldn't the ECU then lean the mixture out.
With high NOx , a richer mix would cool chamber temps, so shouldn't the engine run at normal high temp?
Hot engine, richer mix, lower NOx ?

[86yota]

Thanks for all the tips guys ive been getting temporary operating permits for the last year and a half, im gona have to smog it soon.  The smog thing is a bunch of bs.  How come you can take your truck to one smog shop and it fails, then you imediaty drive across town to a no apointment necessary shop and it passes just fine?  Smog techs are lying bastards!

[BLACKDOG]

some guys are just dicks, 'cause they are into the rice rockets and such, or they dont want to cllimb up into the truck.  My exhaust pipe ends right above the axle under the bed, and it pisses techs off when they have to crawl under there to hook it up.  Ya gots to go to a place where they guys appreciate wheelers.  I hadmy smog done in elk grove and the guy is a fellow wheeler.  He did everything he could to make it pass, and it did, even with a cat that was goign bad.

[nevr2hi]

Any one here from Harris county Texas..? I might be moving there.

I have an 1985 4runner with a 1985 Chevy 4.3L V6 big cam.Geared. ALL the emmission stuff has been removed. 

I am running rams horn headers with 18inch glass packs. Edelbrock 2111 manifold and 390CFM holley carb..

I have read where any car

Vehicles
2-24 yrs old
Gasoline powered
Registered in an emissions county


Have to take the test....I guess that means in 4 more years I don't have to take the emmission test...?

I have to agree. If we can beat the test what the hell. Great topic


http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/search/searchresults.asp?type=cache&q=cache:http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/publications/brochures/brochures.htm+emissions+harris+county&site=crawl&output=xml_no_dtd&client=crawl&proxystylesheet=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.txdps.state.tx.us%2Fincludes%2Fstyles%2Finternetstylesheet.xslt

[MiniSimp]

I smogged mine in Sonora.
Drove the heck out of it and cruised into the shop with my friendly smog guy ready with the hook ups, and it barely passed (failed 2 tests before this)
Luckily in Tuolumne County, you only have to smog your vehicle once for the life of your vehicle (unless you sell).
Worked out great though. Kept it nice and hot, passed.
 

[Huhwhye]

Just went thru this today.  My 87 Turbo failed barely on the first test, it had 39ppm too many NOx at 15mph and thats it.  When over 1200 ppm is allowed, +39 is so small.  Everything else was well within spec.

I was pissed because my truck is in good shape and I checked the timing before the test, I set the valves, changed the oil, degreased/demudded the motor, new air filter, new gas etc. etc.

I asked the guy what is the tolerance for timing and idle speed.  He said +/- 3 degrees on timing and +/- 100 rpm for idle speed

Well I went home took 2 degrees out of the timing for a total of 3* advanced (5 is stock on turbo motors), brought the idle speed down to about 800, I noticed that with my idle speed up at around 900 it had a few degrees more timing with the jumper wire removed than it did at 800.  That's regardless of where initial timing was set with the terminals jumpered and the enigne at 800 rpm. Took 5 minutes for the adjustments and I headed back to the Smog Station.

Ran the truck with the electric fan OFF.  Truck was at 210-220 degrees during the test.  Today was a hot day.  Had the heater running full blast during the test.

Funny thing is my truck runs like garbage with the timing at +3 and idle at 800.  But it worked.

And Viola it passed with flying colors.  My NOx numbers dropped to half their previous values and all other number remained constant and well within spec.  I mean it wasn't even close.

My truck has 1 point higher compression than stock, a bigger cam, the original cat, and a universal Bosch O2 sensor.

[Hyena]

Also check any vavuum line for being clogged etc.  And also make sure your gas cap is good.  they said mine didn't pass cuzz of those 2 things and also i didn't have the heat shield or tube running to it from the intake.  Also something else important but i can't remember right now.  O ya, my timing was set at +15 or so for some reason.  They set it back down to +6 i think.

[rockhound]

Here's the hot tip. apply for the CAP, have the state pay for the repairs at a certified repair station.You pay the first $100, they pay for up to $500 in repairs, EGR, Cat whatever. Once it's fixed ya don't have to worry about it ever again. All this monkeying around in the past. If you're broke, or your truck is Test Only, ya qualify. Go to www.smogcheck.ca.gov and click on the financial aide link. It will take you to Consumer Assistance Program.

[Westy]

easiest way to pass smog = avoid registering a vehicle in a county that tests for it (this applies to those who have a second vehicle for their off road use)

I registered my trail rig out of Maricopa county to avoid having to pass smog on my 22r with weber, etc. If you know anyone that has a cabin or any address that is in a small city or in the mountains..just use their address. I was upfront with the MVD and told them I dont live at this address I live in Scottsdale but just trying to avoid going through smog and both MVD associates I spoke with had no problems and didnt even really ask any questions. I am even getting the mail to re-register sent to my normal address. good luck...
Brian

[rockhound]

Well, after over$700 of repairs, it passed smog. a new o2 sensor and a high capacity cat!
Nox still high at 900 +, but good enough to keep me on the road to the trails. I paid $200, our tax dollars picked up the rest.