Author Topic: Will it work or not?  (Read 1848 times)

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Osage1978

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Will it work or not?
« on: Feb 16, 2018, 07:21:12 PM »
So I've got a worn out L45 4 speed in my 82 pickup. It shifts good but it's noisey in 1,2 & 3 . I'm sure the bearings are shot, don't have the $ to replace it right now and I depend on it daily. Here's my crazy/stupid/desperate idea

 Thinking of draining some oil out and replacing it with something much heavier like Amsoil 190w - 250w gear oil for diffs Not a lot but say 10-15%. I drive it around 7 miles round trip M-F and rarely on weekends. So will this work? Will the extra heavy oil help fill the gap temporarily in these worn bearings or is there no hope??? Is there another oil / lube that could buy me some time?
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2018, 03:24:03 PM by Osage1978 »
John 5:24

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 17, 2018, 07:13:09 PM »
It will quiet the noise down, but it wont extend the life of the trans much, if any.
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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 17, 2018, 07:53:18 PM »
oil that thick might actually do ore harm than good
chances are you could get bearings from Marlin and install at least the input bearing and get by til you can do it right
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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 18, 2018, 04:37:31 AM »
I don't believe you can damage the gears or bearings by running heavier gear oil unless your running your truck in sub-zero temperatures.

The Amsoil viscosity is too heavy.

I'd try this:  https://www.autozone.com/greases-and-gear-oil/gear-oil/stp-gear-oil-85w-140-1-gal-/692269_0_0

Reducing noise will reduce metal contact and wear - and WILL extend the life of the bad bearings.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~10,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Osage1978 [OP]

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 18, 2018, 07:23:38 AM »
I can change the transmission but have no idea how to tear into one to replace bearings and can't afford to try and figure out on the weekend because of work Monday.

I live in N. E. Oklahoma there aren't many days of really cold left this time of year so not worried about cold temps. I wasn't going to use much 250w oil like I said maybe 10-15% surely that wouldn't be to much.

Maybe I'll add some 80-140W with some 250w mixed in, I don't think to thick of oil in a manual transmission this worn can honestly hurt it. So long as it climbs gears and flows which I believe it will I can't see how it can harm anything. The old stand by forever in older engines since my grandfather was you was thicker oil in warn machines.

Guess I'll guinea pig this one payday and see.
« Last Edit: Feb 18, 2018, 07:30:18 AM by Osage1978 »
John 5:24

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 19, 2018, 03:27:30 AM »
I don't believe you can damage the gears or bearings by running heavier gear oil unless your running your truck in sub-zero temperatures.

The Amsoil viscosity is too heavy.

I'd try this:  https://www.autozone.com/greases-and-gear-oil/gear-oil/stp-gear-oil-85w-140-1-gal-/692269_0_0

Reducing noise will reduce metal contact and wear - and WILL extend the life of the bad bearings.

Gnarls.
What??   why is that Amsoil too heavy??    I can't wait to hear this. :eek:

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 19, 2018, 04:05:17 AM »
maybe because the thick THICK viscosity may not circulate into the bearing and cause it to over heat because it was in effect starved of oil??
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 19, 2018, 05:55:36 AM »
What??   why is that Amsoil too heavy??    I can't wait to hear this. :eek:



250 lbs. of gear lube is a LOT of weight!!  :gap:

Gnarls :laugh:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~10,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Osage1978 [OP]

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 19, 2018, 09:45:59 AM »
I emailed Amsoil Friday asking them their opinion on this. They said I could run pure 250w in the transmission if the temps stayed up & be fine. They said that they've had customers run 100% 250w in manual transmissions and the only negative thing is that it can make them more difficult to change gears. Anyway just an update
John 5:24

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 19, 2018, 11:16:22 AM »
Putting thick oil in to mask a bearing issue is similar to putting on a bigger muffler with an engine that's back firing.

With gear oil it's the additives that really make the difference (it's the additives that give it the distinct smell) when it comes to wear.  Thicker base oils doesn't change these additives.
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Osage1978 [OP]

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 19, 2018, 12:37:10 PM »
I understand it's not the correct fix, but as I said in the original post I'm only trying to buy some time & not being lazy. I believe it will work for a while.

Mine is a case where better lubrication or additives should have been used to prevent the current problem long before I owned it. I'm basically using thick oil to fill in space once filled by bearing surface.
John 5:24

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 19, 2018, 01:00:06 PM »
I understand it's not the correct fix, but as I said in the original post I'm only trying to buy some time & not being lazy. I believe it will work for a while.

Mine is a case where better lubrication or additives should have been used to prevent the current problem long before I owned it. I'm basically using thick oil to fill in space once filled by bearing surface.

My point is that just because itís muffled doesnít mean youíre getting any real benefit.  I know youíre not being lazy and this is a Hail Mary to buy some time. I think itís a waste of money.  You would be better off running the cheapest gear oil you can buy and change it often. This would hopefully remove the metal that I assume must be collecting in the oil if itís in the condition you suspect.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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Osage1978 [OP]

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 19, 2018, 01:11:59 PM »
Ok I understand your point about masking sounds vs actually lubricating  Maybe a thicker oil will act as a cushion and an additive to increase actual  lubrication may buy me some time. If it makes it quieter and nothing else I'll be happy just not listening to it growl as I drive
« Last Edit: Feb 19, 2018, 01:53:55 PM by Osage1978 »
John 5:24

blackdiamond

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 19, 2018, 01:18:24 PM »
Ok I understand your point about masking sounds vs actually lubrication. Maybe a thicker oil will act as a cushion and an additive to increase actual  lubrication may buy me some time. If it makes it quieter and nothing else I'll be happy just not listening to it growl as I drive

Seems like a perfect application for something like Lucas oil stabilizer.  One of my ďfavoriteĒ products.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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Osage1978 [OP]

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 19, 2018, 01:45:55 PM »
I watched a gearbox with a cutaway that only had Lucas in it, spun at high-speed the Lucas stayed on the gears and had a heavy webbing effect between gears , next to omega 690 which I can't afford it's probably as good as the Amsoil . I guess in short I was looking for a better product than Lucas though it's probably as good at its job as anything dollar for dollar. Hmmmm what to do?
John 5:24

Osage1978 [OP]

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 19, 2018, 01:50:00 PM »
Omega 690 gear lubricant/oil roughly $200 a gallon

https://youtu.be/WtZyNbiZaao
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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #16 on: Feb 19, 2018, 03:44:20 PM »
I watched a gearbox with a cutaway that only had Lucas in it, spun at high-speed the Lucas stayed on the gears and had a heavy webbing effect between gears , next to omega 690 which I can't afford it's probably as good as the Amsoil . I guess in short I was looking for a better product than Lucas though it's probably as good at its job as anything dollar for dollar. Hmmmm what to do?

Have you seen the video where it foams?
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 19, 2018, 04:19:21 PM »
https://youtu.be/wLnpHWwu9xM

That is a ridiculous and practically worthless test!

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Feb 19, 2018, 04:29:42 PM by Gnarly4X »
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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 19, 2018, 04:29:59 PM »
Ok I understand your point about masking sounds vs actually lubricating  Maybe a thicker oil will act as a cushion and an additive to increase actual  lubrication may buy me some time. If it makes it quieter and nothing else I'll be happy just not listening to it growl as I drive

I spent some time with my local transmission shop when I had a noise in my 5-speed of my 85. I experimented with different oil, including 20-50w Castrol motor oil.

I also spent about 8 years while going through 3 sand rails and there were many conversations about transaxle gear lube and oil for the sandrails.

The 250w gear oil is OK, but the reason I suggested a lower viscosity is because you have noise, which you have not been able to fully identify the source.  If you go too thick, at cold ambient temperatures, the synchros and other more critical components inside the tranny will not be messing and causing intermittent grinding.

If the noise is reduced with a higher viscosity oil, then logically the bearing and metal on metal contact IS reduced.

So.. running a 75-140w or the Amsoil 250w will definitely reduce the wear and thus prolong the life of the transmission.  PERIOD.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~10,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #20 on: Feb 19, 2018, 04:53:29 PM »
That is a ridiculous and practically worthless test!

Gnarls.

I would agree with you, but add at that the test as setup in the store is also practically worthless and how they choose to advertise their product.  I suspect the speed of the differential gears is closer to the drill than the speed from being turned by hand, but obviously somewhere in the middle.  If that's their best marketing for it and they can't really tell you what it does to improve an engineered chemical formulation then I am highly skeptical.

It reminds me of the way Monster Cable advertised the superior speaker wires.  They had extremely long lengths of the "other" cable under the setup to reduce the output volume through resistance by a dB or two knowing that in tests nearly everyone will select the louder sound as being better in an A/B comparison.

If the OP wants to run something thicker then I'd go with an actual product that has an original formulation that has a higher viscosity rather than dumping in something else with the idea that it will somehow improve something.  Just my two cents, it may not be worth much.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #21 on: Feb 19, 2018, 05:16:09 PM »
...  Just my two cents, it may not be worth much.

bd... Your two cents are ALWAYS worth something to ME!!!  :gap:   :beerchug:

Gnarls.  :yesnod:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~10,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #22 on: Feb 19, 2018, 05:26:26 PM »
bd... Your two cents are ALWAYS worth something to ME!!!  :gap:   :beerchug:

Gnarls.  :yesnod:


I just watched an STP vs. Lucas test.  The Lucas seemed to outperform the STP, but like most tests they didn't use a control motor oil to see how much, if any, difference either actually made.  I'd put my money on just about any full synthetic motor oil.

What I love are the comments from people that now feel good that they have Lucas in their engines when the test didn't address if either actually did anything beyond what they base oil would do.  And that's how this type of product gets it's good name.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

Osage1978 [OP]

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #23 on: Feb 19, 2018, 06:20:36 PM »
No I haven't watched the video where Lucas foams.

 Honestly the last 30 days I've watched, read  and looked into more information about lubrication products than ever before in my life. The one thing I've learned for sure is there's to many opinions on the topic to know who's correct & everyone is an expert in their own right. It seems there's also as much defense of one's personal beliefs on oils & lubrication products as there is political & religious topics

So I'll likely do what I've done with the last two topics , test things myself, study as unbiased as possible & use logic with my own reasoning to form my own beliefs. I'll undoubtedly get some things wrong and adapt my view with time & experience.

Thank you all for your opinions and information .
« Last Edit: Feb 19, 2018, 06:27:21 PM by Osage1978 »
John 5:24

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #24 on: Feb 19, 2018, 06:36:30 PM »
250 lbs. of gear lube is a LOT of weight!!  :gap:

Gnarls :laugh:

do you have a problem with me?   because I am getting quite fed up with your smart ass comments.   If you were not trying to piss me off you might have noticed I directly replied to a comment YOU MADE.
I have seen you come into numerous threads right behind me and word your remarks different but say the exact same thing as I have to try and contradict what I have said and I am getting fed up fast.   
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #25 on: Feb 19, 2018, 06:47:07 PM »
do you have a problem with me?   because I am getting quite fed up with your smart ass comments.   If you were not trying to piss me off you might have noticed I directly replied to a comment YOU MADE.
I have seen you come into numerous threads right behind me and word your remarks different but say the exact same thing as I have to try and contradict what I have said and I am getting fed up fast.   

Do I need to report you to yourself?
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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Osage1978 [OP]

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #26 on: Feb 19, 2018, 06:51:37 PM »
Here's a friendly video from the folks at GM over lubrication from black&white days ( 1937 ) so we can all watch & relax .

https://youtu.be/vz2p1SvuYjY
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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #27 on: Feb 19, 2018, 07:00:43 PM »
No I haven't watched the video where Lucas foams.

 Honestly the last 30 days I've watched, read  and looked into more information about lubrication products than ever before in my life. The one thing I've learned for sure is there's to many opinions on the topic to know who's correct & everyone is an expert in their own right. It seems there's also as much defense of one's personal beliefs on oils & lubrication products as there is political & religious topics

So I'll likely do what I've done with the last two topics , test things myself, study as unbiased as possible & use logic with my own reasoning to form my own beliefs. I'll undoubtedly get some things wrong and adapt my view with time & experience.

Thank you all for your opinions and information .

Politics, religion, oil products, and audio equipment.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #28 on: Feb 19, 2018, 07:06:02 PM »
Do I need to report you to yourself?

not yet but stand by
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

Osage1978 [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
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Re: Will it work or not?
« Reply #29 on: Feb 19, 2018, 07:20:40 PM »
Audio equipment lol forgot about that one. Back in the late 90's I'd have been drawn into that debate. Now I've lost touch and hearing

At least we all agree my transmission needs help & apparently so do I , so there's a start
John 5:24

 
 
 
 
 

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