Author Topic: Legendary (un)reliability?  (Read 6575 times)

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #60 on: Aug 21, 2017, 03:19:00 AM »
In my opinion, NO. 


Hi Lewis,

Well… you have certainly made the Chit-Chat forum a wordy discussion.

Yes, you are correct.  All of the evidence that exists that would be convincing enough for an average person can be disputed and debated from several perspectives.

In academia, politics, science, medicine, religion, and in automotive history there any number of “experts” that will emphatically disagree with facts, research, and anecdotal evidence.

I recently read a book by a well-known scientist, PhD and highly educated in one the most prestigious Universities in the US.  In this book, New York Times Best Seller, 25% of its pages were printed bibliography… his sources and peer-reviewed documentation!  And still, on a scientific forum that I frequent, the arguments, debates, antithetical posts were endless. Many of the disagreements were made by other so called experts - PhDs.  Some discourse was simply profound ignorance on the part of the person.

My point… no one is going to convince you… you will only be convinced in your own mind.  The believability of facts is not found in this forum… it will only be found inside your head.

And yes, you are absolutely correct, the videos were just entertainment, biased, not scientific, inconclusive, but seemingly was created to simply demonstrate why the early Toyota pickup has a perceived public legendary title of reliable.

In human psychology there are number of known personality disorders, according to the clinical psychologists most of us have one or more.  Because I have several, one of which I am working on to manage better, I am going to withdraw myself from this discussion so I don’t inexplicably overly expose it. LOL.

In the words of Marylin vos Savant......

“Be able to defend your arguments in a rational way. Otherwise, all you have is an opinion.”


Gnarls.



« Last Edit: Aug 21, 2017, 03:34:47 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~15,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #61 on: Aug 21, 2017, 03:43:09 AM »
WWII Spitefires. MK1 and MK2.   One of the best of the war....unless you were in Russia flying one.  Every one that flew on the Eastern Front was junk. Why? Because it was at least two versions behind, patched together after months of abuse and likely crashed at least once. No manuals for the crews, or manuals that had pages missing or blacked out for some reason, and they where in English not Russian.   


Does the fact that this plane was made by a British company explain anything?  :dunno:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~15,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #62 on: Aug 21, 2017, 03:45:16 AM »
... If he bought a truck that was used and I mean "used up, it will not as good as a less destroyed truck..

I'll buy what you're selling.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :thumbs:




« Last Edit: Aug 21, 2017, 04:09:56 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~15,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Lewis Hein [OP]

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #63 on: Aug 21, 2017, 04:57:24 AM »
Thanks, everyone, for your comments and input. I, for one, have learned much.

It is clear to me that I will never be satisfied on this question, either way. And no, I am not basing my arguments solely on my badly abused truck: Almost every Toyota I've been around has had problems that I thought should not have happened. But, as per my above post, I don't consider my experience to be good evidence, either. I agree that the evidence is in favor of Toyota, but I'm not convinced (yet).

Lewis Hein [OP]

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #64 on: Aug 21, 2017, 05:06:30 AM »
I find it hard to believe you'd be more happy in a Ford than a TOYOTA...did you buy perhaps the wrong TOYOTA? maybe. I have no idea what has happened to your truck that makes you think it will never be reliable, but that's your opinion. I bet if a Ford lived the same life as your TOYOTA, the Ford would already be patio furniture made in China about 10 years ago :)

My rationale behind saying I should never have bought a Toyota is this: As I have learned through hard experience, for a 30 year/200,000 mile truck previous maintenance appears to be at least as important as original quality. And finding a well treated ford might be easier than finding a well treated Toyota. But this isn't a discussion about what I should have bought. I'm trying to untangle truth and fiction in the legend of legendary Toyota durability, which was formed at times when I wasn't even alive.

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #65 on: Aug 22, 2017, 05:10:09 PM »
Does the fact that this plane was made by a British company explain anything?  :dunno:

Gnarls.

No more like  the planes that got sent to Russia were equal to trucks that had basicly been rolled at highway speed and wrote off.   

Lewis Hein [OP]

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #66 on: Aug 22, 2017, 06:03:39 PM »
Well, guys, I'm stumped on the airplane. It seems to me that that plane would indeed be a flying death trap, especially if any really important parts were to quit midair.

Perhaps reliability is a matter of perception?? Perhaps I have no idea??

Lewis

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #67 on: Aug 22, 2017, 06:49:10 PM »
For planes I can see the scenario where it takes hours to get to the part you're servicing, then hours to put everything back together again..........
Ed
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emsvitil

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #68 on: Aug 22, 2017, 06:52:48 PM »
Also, are we talking hours or man-hours ?
Ed
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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #69 on: Aug 22, 2017, 08:32:16 PM »
I have extensive experience with the Toyota products. Reliability and quality only compared
I look at it like this, then (1980's) vs now (2010 and up)
Example        Then            vs          now
Water pump  150k+ miles  vs       not common to make it to 100k before replacing
Head gaskets 150k or less. vs.      180k or more
Emissions components failed    What emissions (Lol) vs common to see multiple at or before 100k
Recalls    Maybe one or two per vehicle on average vs 5+ per vehicle model some with 8+ recalls
Timing chains         150k + or -  vs never replace them now
Toyota vehicles now in most ways are the same as back then. Very well engineered vehicle that you can keep forever if it is maintained properly. I am a technician and have been for the last 21 years. If you ask your mechanic what is the best vehicle to buy. You will get two possible answers toyota or Honda because they last and are reliable.
As it sits today most all the auto manufacturers make good vehicle that are reliable.
Here is my opinion of current top three
Import               Domestic
#1 Kia             #1 Ford (far better than the other two)
#2 toyota        #2 Chevy (Good trucks and SUV, cars are still crap)
#3 Honda.       #3 Chrysler (they got lots of problems. To many to list)

Here is why I believe Toyota is still the way to go
They stand behind there product, period!
3.0L head gasket cluster. Every single 3.0 got headgaskets on toyota and many got engines. No time or mileage restriction.
Modern tundra. Serious issues with water introduction into air injection systems. Originally covered for 3/36k
Toyota says now it is covered for 10 years or 150k
I could go on and on about all the times when toyota had made the decision to cover items way way out of warranty when they did not have to.
Ford had a disappointing answer for 6.0 and 6.4l diesel owners who had a grocery list of failings . They said "no"
Chevy and Dodge have done the same when a pattern failure has developed. The big three have hidden behind the warranty time and mileage while Toyota has voluntarily extended warranty periods when a pattern failure has developed. Even when the vehicles are already out of warranty.
Why do they do such a thing?
Because Toyota prides itself as being a reliable long lasting care you can keep forever.





I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #70 on: Aug 22, 2017, 09:31:27 PM »
I have extensive experience with the Toyota products. Reliability and quality only compared
I look at it like this, then (1980's) vs now (2010 and up)
Example        Then            vs          now
Water pump  150k+ miles  vs       not common to make it to 100k before replacing
Head gaskets 150k or less. vs.      180k or more
Emissions components failed    What emissions (Lol) vs common to see multiple at or before 100k
Recalls    Maybe one or two per vehicle on average vs 5+ per vehicle model some with 8+ recalls
Timing chains         150k + or -  vs never replace them now
Toyota vehicles now in most ways are the same as back then. Very well engineered vehicle that you can keep forever if it is maintained properly. I am a technician and have been for the last 21 years. If you ask your mechanic what is the best vehicle to buy. You will get two possible answers toyota or Honda because they last and are reliable.
As it sits today most all the auto manufacturers make good vehicle that are reliable.
Here is my opinion of current top three
Import               Domestic
#1 Kia             #1 Ford (far better than the other two)
#2 toyota        #2 Chevy (Good trucks and SUV, cars are still crap)
#3 Honda.       #3 Chrysler (they got lots of problems. To many to list)

Here is why I believe Toyota is still the way to go
They stand behind there product, period!
3.0L head gasket cluster. Every single 3.0 got headgaskets on toyota and many got engines. No time or mileage restriction.
Modern tundra. Serious issues with water introduction into air injection systems. Originally covered for 3/36k
Toyota says now it is covered for 10 years or 150k
I could go on and on about all the times when toyota had made the decision to cover items way way out of warranty when they did not have to.
Ford had a disappointing answer for 6.0 and 6.4l diesel owners who had a grocery list of failings . They said "no"
Chevy and Dodge have done the same when a pattern failure has developed. The big three have hidden behind the warranty time and mileage while Toyota has voluntarily extended warranty periods when a pattern failure has developed. Even when the vehicles are already out of warranty.
Why do they do such a thing?
Because Toyota prides itself as being a reliable long lasting care you can keep forever.







really? Kia #1? please explain. I was unaware Kia had such quality. I've never heard this before
my 3rz swap. http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=97722.0

Let me start off with a basket of chips

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #71 on: Aug 22, 2017, 09:59:09 PM »
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/amp/which-car-ranks-highest-quality-surprisingly-it-s-kia-n775161

https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/why-kia/quality/overview

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2016/06/22/kia-just-accomplished-something-no-automaker-has-done-in-27-years.html

https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/kia-has-suddenly-become-one-of-the-most-reliable-car-brands-259590

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/askcarsales/comments/2ng2zb/i_keep_hearing_kia_has_improved_their_reliability/

Kia has offered a 10 year 100k warranty for quite some time now. They have used the information gathered from failures to improve the product. At this point (2011 and newer) it is rare to see a failure on a Kia. It makes sense when you think about it. Less warranty repairs of any kind cost Kia less money and customers continue to buy the product because they don't have any issues. I have a 2015 Sportage. It is one of the nicest cars we have ever owned. Over 63k and not a single issue. If you take the time to read the above articles you will see they are the new standard.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #72 on: Aug 22, 2017, 11:43:51 PM »

Import               Domestic
#1 TOYOTA         #1 Ford (almost junk)
#2 TOYOTA         #2 Chevy (junk)
#3 TOYOTA         #3 Chrysler (super junk, but turbocharged junk)


I have adjusted your list to better suit reality :gap:
Keep it TOYOTA!

In the past years, I used to get a lot of calls from Jeep owners wanting to go slow like the Toy trucks.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #73 on: Aug 23, 2017, 03:57:13 AM »
Good discussion...  I couldn't help myself!!....  :disturbed:

Top-Ranked Cars, Trucks, and SUVs in the J.D. Power 2017 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study

The annual J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) is a measure of reliability, asking original owners of 3-year-old vehicles how dependable their vehicles have been during the prior 12 months.

http://www.jdpower.com/cars/articles/jd-power-studies/top-ranked-cars-trucks-and-suvs-jd-power-2017-us-vehicle

10 out of 18 vehicles … TOYOTA!!!! … Is that accurate? Or is the data collected by JD Power just Bravo Sierra?

I have a lot of respect for the “hands-on” people who actually work on and repair things. Their opinions are very valid for the degree of experience they have.  When my home heat pump went out, I ask my HVAC guy (Who makes his living – about 20 years – working on heat pumps and AC units that see one of the hottest climates in the USA) what he thought about the Trane unit he was repairing at my home.  He said “It’s a quality unit”.  I asked why.  He said “I don’t get to work on them very much”.

I believe that the warranty offer included in many manufacturer’s products is often a marketing tool.  Because a product has a Life Time Warranty does NOT mean it is a higher quality product (MTTF - mean time to failure) than the same alternate product with only 90-day warranty.

Gnarls. :spin:



« Last Edit: Aug 23, 2017, 04:43:07 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~15,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Lewis Hein [OP]

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #74 on: Aug 23, 2017, 04:47:03 AM »
Yes, very good discussion. Some of the things said here are things I haven't heard before -- for instance about Toyota choosing to cover things that were out of warranty. Also, I read an eye-opening article the other day about the Duramax engine. Guess what: They begin the article talking about the legendary durability "(with proper maintenance)" of the Duramax, but spend the next little while talking about the troubles that plagued it in the first few generations.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/06/dissecting-duramax-getting-inside-six-generations-gms-6-6l-diesel-dominator/

To be fair, it's not like Toyota's first V6 was such a great engine. But I have been struck by BigMike's point about the life cycle of Toyota engines.

Also, the other day I was strongly considering ditching my truck and buying a used Dodge ram. I have known of some Dodges that were really good trucks: one lives down the road from me. However, doing some research on what might be wrong with a 1998 Dodge at 250k was enough to scare me away. Even if some were really good, the number that weren't makes me hesitate.

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #75 on: Aug 25, 2017, 12:23:55 PM »
I have extensive experience with the Toyota products. Reliability and quality only compared
I look at it like this, then (1980's) vs now (2010 and up)
Example        Then            vs          now
Water pump  150k+ miles  vs       not common to make it to 100k before replacing
Head gaskets 150k or less. vs.      180k or more
Emissions components failed    What emissions (Lol) vs common to see multiple at or before 100k
Recalls    Maybe one or two per vehicle on average vs 5+ per vehicle model some with 8+ recalls
Timing chains         150k + or -  vs never replace them now
Toyota vehicles now in most ways are the same as back then. Very well engineered vehicle that you can keep forever if it is maintained properly. I am a technician and have been for the last 21 years. If you ask your mechanic what is the best vehicle to buy. You will get two possible answers toyota or Honda because they last and are reliable.
As it sits today most all the auto manufacturers make good vehicle that are reliable.
Here is my opinion of current top three
Import               Domestic
#1 Kia             #1 Ford (far better than the other two)
#2 toyota        #2 Chevy (Good trucks and SUV, cars are still crap)
#3 Honda.       #3 Chrysler (they got lots of problems. To many to list)

Here is why I believe Toyota is still the way to go
They stand behind there product, period!
3.0L head gasket cluster. Every single 3.0 got headgaskets on toyota and many got engines. No time or mileage restriction.
Modern tundra. Serious issues with water introduction into air injection systems. Originally covered for 3/36k
Toyota says now it is covered for 10 years or 150k
I could go on and on about all the times when toyota had made the decision to cover items way way out of warranty when they did not have to.
Ford had a disappointing answer for 6.0 and 6.4l diesel owners who had a grocery list of failings . They said "no"
Chevy and Dodge have done the same when a pattern failure has developed. The big three have hidden behind the warranty time and mileage while Toyota has voluntarily extended warranty periods when a pattern failure has developed. Even when the vehicles are already out of warranty.
Why do they do such a thing?
Because Toyota prides itself as being a reliable long lasting care you can keep forever.







Daihatsu not on the List  :slap:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #76 on: Aug 25, 2017, 08:05:55 PM »
Daihatsu not on the List  :slap:

Daihatsu is a wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota.  :yesnod:

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~15,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #77 on: Aug 25, 2017, 09:12:30 PM »
Daihatsu is a wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota.  :yesnod:

Gnarls.  :gap:

Don't forget Hino. Also the fact that 90% of the lift truck( fork lifts) in the warehouses are toyota. They are also running 22r Motors of propane.. 

Anyone know where to get a propane kit for their 22? :disturbed:

Lewis Hein [OP]

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #78 on: Aug 26, 2017, 07:12:45 PM »
Toyota vehicles now in most ways are the same as back then. Very well engineered vehicle that you can keep forever if it is maintained properly.

I think I see light dawning and revealing the profound depths of my ignorance. Do there exist vehicles that you can not keep indefinitely, even with proper maintenance?

The thing is, nearly all my direct experience is with Toyotas, and the rest with Hondas. When something breaks on a car I maintain or have helped to maintain, it always feels like it shouldn't have done that. And it's always a Toyota because, well... that's almost the only kind of car I or my family have ever driven for almost as long as I can remember.

My indirect experience, with whatever vehicle, is always positive. I'm beginning to worry about that, as in it might be meaningless. For a true comparison, I feel like I would need to own and maintain a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge for 20 years. Or be a mechanic myself, working on all makes of cars for 20 years.

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #79 on: Aug 26, 2017, 08:21:53 PM »
Sometimes, when I'm not quite sure how to best describe something, I say it is "interesting". This thread has been, well..... interesting.

I have owned the truck in my avatar for 40 years. It has been, by most measurements, reliable. And reasonably well maintained. And it has had a fair amount of repairs done to it over the years, as you might imagine.

What does all this mean, what conclusions can be drawn from my experiences? Beat the hell out of me. It just seems to fit this thread.
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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #80 on: Aug 27, 2017, 07:11:48 AM »
I'm a total noober here, but as always, your mileage may vary.

I had a 2004 Toyota Sienna that was one of the worst heaps that I've ever owned. Spoke to a Toyota service manager a month or so ago socially, and he was going to fight me at first, until I told him what year it was. "Yeah, that one was a piece of $%^t."

I had a 2001 Toyota Tundra. Loved it, mostly...until the V6 turned to complete sludge. This problem coincided with my first child, so I got a Honda Accord out of it that was bulletproof.

Speaking of "mileage may vary....." One of my vehicles now is a 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan. Once I stopped it from snacking on front rotors...it's been literally perfect, knock on wood. Apparently, it's a unicorn.

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #81 on: Aug 27, 2017, 01:39:58 PM »
I'm a total noober here, but as always, your mileage may vary.

I had a 2004 Toyota Sienna that was one of the worst heaps that I've ever owned. Spoke to a Toyota service manager a month or so ago socially, and he was going to fight me at first, until I told him what year it was. "Yeah, that one was a piece of $%^t."

I had a 2001 Toyota Tundra. Loved it, mostly...until the V6 turned to complete sludge. This problem coincided with my first child, so I got a Honda Accord out of it that was bulletproof.

Speaking of "mileage may vary....." One of my vehicles now is a 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan. Once I stopped it from snacking on front rotors...it's been literally perfect, knock on wood. Apparently, it's a unicorn.

2004 was the first year of that body style of Sienna. The list of issues is quite long.
Lesson, don't ever buy the first year of any model. That will never change. Even a Toyota

The tundra v6 from 2001 is a great motor. Someone did not change the oil as often as they should have or used a different brand of oil each service.
Lesson, change the oil every 5k, use quality oil, and stick with the same brand of oil. No mixing (bad idea)

Your Caravan is notorious for eating transmissions. Usually one every 100k, approximately.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

utherjorge

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #82 on: Aug 27, 2017, 02:47:29 PM »
RE: Sienna. Exactly what the service manager said. I was much more disappointed by Toyota not standing behind any repair of it, and the local dealership at the time was 10x worse.

RE: Tundra. I bought it used, so you are probably right. Still, at 40k miles with a history of servicing through a (different) dealer, for it to be a sludge monster at that mileage was a surprise.

RE: Grand Caravan. BITE YOUR TONGUE. It has 88k miles now.

My 2003 Suburban has nothing but typical problems, if any, and they're easy to fix, or have been thus far. Pretty happy with it, all around.

:)bestgen4runner

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #83 on: Aug 27, 2017, 10:49:36 PM »
RE: Sienna. Exactly what the service manager said. I was much more disappointed by Toyota not standing behind any repair of it, and the local dealership at the time was 10x worse.

RE: Tundra. I bought it used, so you are probably right. Still, at 40k miles with a history of servicing through a (different) dealer, for it to be a sludge monster at that mileage was a surprise.

RE: Grand Caravan. BITE YOUR TONGUE. It has 88k miles now.

My 2003 Suburban has nothing but typical problems, if any, and they're easy to fix, or have been thus far. Pretty happy with it, all around.
Sell it now!!!!!!!!!
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

blackdiamond

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #84 on: Aug 28, 2017, 03:47:29 PM »
RE: Sienna. Exactly what the service manager said. I was much more disappointed by Toyota not standing behind any repair of it, and the local dealership at the time was 10x worse.

RE: Tundra. I bought it used, so you are probably right. Still, at 40k miles with a history of servicing through a (different) dealer, for it to be a sludge monster at that mileage was a surprise.

RE: Grand Caravan. BITE YOUR TONGUE. It has 88k miles now.

My 2003 Suburban has nothing but typical problems, if any, and they're easy to fix, or have been thus far. Pretty happy with it, all around.

The 4.7l motor in the original Tundra's is an excellent engine and shouldn't "sludge up" unless something was done wrong with its service.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

utherjorge

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #85 on: Aug 28, 2017, 05:07:00 PM »
It was the V6, the 3.4.

kneedownnate

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #86 on: Aug 28, 2017, 11:23:10 PM »
Sometimes, when I'm not quite sure how to best describe something, I say it is "interesting". This thread has been, well..... interesting.

I have owned the truck in my avatar for 40 years. It has been, by most measurements, reliable. And reasonably well maintained. And it has had a fair amount of repairs done to it over the years, as you might imagine.

What does all this mean, what conclusions can be drawn from my experiences? Beat the hell out of me. It just seems to fit this thread.

All things considered, I'd say it's been incredibly reliable!  Got into and out of sticky situations, was a great bear hunting rig for several years, and hauled tons of wood and about everything except ass... 
RIP KYOTA

You can go through life being scared of the possible, or you can have a little fun and tease the inevitable.

Give a man venison, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to hunt Blacktail, he'll be frustrated for life!

Rocksurfer

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #87 on: Aug 30, 2017, 02:02:01 AM »
 
Does the fact that this plane was made by a British company explain anything?  :dunno:

Gnarls.

Electronics by Lucas..... :yikes:
The Ghost-Rider/Ghost Runner

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No matter how far you fall, the ground will always catch you

blackdiamond

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #88 on: Sep 09, 2017, 04:29:40 PM »
I fear that my 2004 Toyota Sequoia with 193,000 miles is about to let me down. I noticed the other day that one of the cosmetic plastic caps is missing from a screw in the passenger side front door. It's only visible when the door is open which is why I hadn't noticed it before. I will be scheduling an appointment with the dealer to have full diagnostic check done. It may be time to trade it in.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

Lewis Hein [OP]

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Re: Legendary (un)reliability?
« Reply #89 on: Sep 09, 2017, 05:02:13 PM »
Haha. Trade it in to me -- I'll trade you a pickup so beat up that a plastic cap more or less is just part of the decór.

That said this thread has gone a long way towards convincing me. Mostly what I've heard before is endless debate with no real evidence; although I'm not convinced, I'm definitely more persuaded than I was before.

And my lack of convincement is no reflection on the arguments presented by anyone here -- I just feel sometimes, when presented with evidence, that the ghosts of mistakes past are ready to haunt me if I accept it without sufficient scrutiny. This probably stems from being in a field where jumping to conclusions could cause me to make mistakes that no-one else might catch.

 
 
 
 
 

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