Topic: 22re full rebuild

[sassparilla_kid]

Okay hopefully the upload haha

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[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Some more pics of the guts, all from LCE, new crank, forged chromoly H-beams, hypereutectic pistons, pro torquer cam and adjustable cam gear

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[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Decided to paint the block silver before reassembly, painted the valve cover and oil pan as well (thought the paint I got was more red, sometimes being colorblind is a bummer!), so that's like +10-15hp right?

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[Gnarly4X]

Hey sassparilla_kid,

Wow… nice start to a rebuild.   

I’m very interested in following your project.   

Perhaps from a practical rather than aesthetics point of view, painting the block, rocker cover, and oil pan a light color is very smart.  After I painted mine black, I realized I screwed up.  I'm not saying you will have anything leaking when you are done with the assembly - but the light colors will simply allow you to see any potential leaks way easier.  To me seeing oil or coolant leaks on a black block or oil pan is very difficult, and I'd much rather find them on the block BEFORE discovering them on my driveway.  The lighter colors also make it easier to get the engine clean during degreasing and power washing. 

If I do another engine rebuild, I will paint light colors on engine and engine bay, including front frame rails. 

On the silver paint, I would give it a coat of clear.  Silver paint is heavy metal and has a more textured surface, the clear coat will help protect the paint and make it easier to clean… that’s just my experience. 

Gnarls. 

[H8PVMNT]

Yeah man!

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Hey sassparilla_kid,

Wow… nice start to a rebuild.   

I’m very interested in following your project.   

Perhaps from a practical rather than aesthetics point of view, painting the block, rocker cover, and oil pan a light color is very smart.  After I painted mine black, I realized I screwed up.  I'm not saying you will have anything leaking when you are done with the assembly - but the light colors will simply allow you to see any potential leaks way easier.  To me seeing oil or coolant leaks on a black block or oil pan is very difficult, and I'd much rather find them on the block BEFORE discovering them on my driveway.  The lighter colors also make it easier to get the engine clean during degreasing and power washing. 

If I do another engine rebuild, I will paint light colors on engine and engine bay, including front frame rails. 

On the silver paint, I would give it a coat of clear.  Silver paint is heavy metal and has a more textured surface, the clear coat will help protect the paint and make it easier to clean… that’s just my experience. 

Gnarls. 

Yeah that's why I picked the colors I did, easy to spot leaks haha

[:)bestgen4runner]

Looking good! 
I like the LCE stuff. 
You are going to love that cam. 
I have been telling the other boys on here to get it but they are cheap and don't often listen. 

[Gnarly4X]

Looking good! 
I like the LCE stuff. 
You are going to love that cam. 
I have been telling the other boys on here to get it but they are cheap and don't often listen. 

Hey :)bestgen4runner,

I think everyone has a different need and a different budget.

Some of us may not have a budget for premium priced parts – it doesn’t necessarily mean they are “cheap”.

If I “listened” to every expert on the forums I’ve frequented, I’d be often confused about which expert I should believe they know what they are talking about!

But… I get what your point is about some people who post their opinions on forums like this one.

Gnarls.   

 

[Gnarly4X]

...
You are going to love that cam. 
I have been telling the other boys on here to get it but they are cheap and don't often listen. 

sassparilla_kid,

I am very curious how that cam works in your rebuild.  I have compared it with other 22 cams in my DD.

Is there any particular thing that made you decide on that camshaft?

Thanks,

Gnarls.

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

sassparilla_kid,

I am very curious how that cam works in your rebuild.  I have compared it with other 22 cams in my DD.

Is there any particular thing that made you decide on that camshaft?

Thanks,

Gnarls.

I couldn't find any bad things mentioned about it online haha. I didn't want anything too crazy and at the same time wanted something that would make s noticeable difference. Also, got the adjustable cam gear so I can tweak things around a bit if I feel like it could use a little more power higher or lower in the rpm range

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[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Found a little tiny bit of time today to work on the engine! Head kind of on, some timing stuff kind of on. Forgot I needed to clean up the rockers so I'll take them to work this week and do that, then I should be able to finish buttoning up the major junk that needs done. After the head's bolted down and timing cover on I think I might have to paint them the same as the block

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[H8PVMNT]

I wish they made a clear timing cover.

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Evidently I either wasn't paying attention or forgot where all of the timing cover bolts went and also what I did with them so I gotta order some more, here's how it sits now, head and timing chain/guides/cam on. Blingy blingy

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[Gnarly4X]

Evidently I either wasn't paying attention or forgot where all of the timing cover bolts went and also what I did with them so I gotta order some more...

Are you aware that there are two (2) bolts that will not get installed through the timing chain cover at the time you are bolting on the timing chain cover?

The one on the passenger side, if you have AC, for the AC bracket.  And, the one on the driver's side for the alternator adjuster bracket.

You should be using a thin blade screwdriver to measure every single bolt hole and corresponding bolt so you know exactly the depth that each bolt will go into the block.

I'm not inferring that you don't already know, but I'm just flashing back to the time I spent bolting on the t-chain cover. 

Gnarls. 

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Are you aware that there are two (2) bolts that will not get installed through the timing chain cover at the time you are bolting on the timing chain cover?

The one on the passenger side, if you have AC, for the AC bracket.  And, the one on the driver's side for the alternator adjuster bracket.

You should be using a thin blade screwdriver to measure every single bolt hole and corresponding bolt so you know exactly the depth that each bolt will go into the block.

I'm not inferring that you don't already know, but I'm just flashing back to the time I spent bolting on the t-chain cover. 

Gnarls. 

Was not aware, thanks for the heads up! Ordered a new set from lce (I'm not sure how complete my current set is, also they're covered in grease and grit I don't feel like cleaning), as well as oil pan bolts, intake manifold stud set, thermostat, and I feel like I'm forgetting something. If I'm lucky they'll make it by the weekend so I can button up the long block and start working on getting all of the other ancillary stuff ready to go

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[Gnarly4X]

...they're covered in grease and grit I don't feel like cleaning)...

I spent at least twice the time cleaning parts as I did assembling them. 

Gnarls. 

[emsvitil]

Greasy parts don't rust

 


So I don't clean them until I'm ready for them.

 

[H8PVMNT]

The top oil pump bolt is the one to watch out for.  You want the one in there that just makes it to the inside of the timing cover.  If it's too long it can bend the timing chain guide or contact the chain.

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Greasy parts don't rust

 


So I don't clean them until I'm ready for them.

 

None of my parts rust because I keep them in the house lol

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[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Starting to look like an engine! Still need to dial the cam timing in but the bottom end is all done! Curios if anybody else has used a crank scraper on their build and if so was there a noticeable difference?

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[Gnarly4X]

...Curios if anybody else has used a crank scraper on their build and if so was there a noticeable difference?

Just curious.... why do you think you need a crank scaper? 

What do you think it will do?

What top RPMs do you plan to use in this engine?

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

It will make a difference. Maybe not one you will feel like a header or a cam.
almost all modern engines use them. It keeps the oil from hanging on the crank shaft counter weights.
It is worth Your time. 

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Just curious.... why do you think you need a crank scaper? 

What do you think it will do?

What top RPMs do you plan to use in this engine?

Gnarls.

A lot of it was curiosity and figured why not since it's all apart. A few semesters ago I took a class (I think it was international quality standards or something) and among the different quality improvement practices we learned about the Toyota  (ironic, huh) method kind of centered on the fact that it's easier to make 100 1% increases than it is to make a single 100% increase, so that's kind of my thoughts with this build. I'm hoping a lot of the smaller things add up (lighter hypereutectic pistons vs cast, lighter h-beam chromoly rods, crank scraper, etc), but in case they don't it still has a better cam and is gonna get some headers too

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[Gnarly4X]

A lot of it was curiosity and figured why not since it's all apart. A few semesters ago I took a class (I think it was international quality standards or something) and among the different quality improvement practices we learned about the Toyota  (ironic, huh) method kind of centered on the fact that it's easier to make 100 1% increases than it is to make a single 100% increase, so that's kind of my thoughts with this build. I'm hoping a lot of the smaller things add up (lighter hypereutectic pistons vs cast, lighter h-beam chromoly rods, crank scraper, etc), but in case they don't it still has a better cam and is gonna get some headers too

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Interesting...

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Interesting...

Gnarls.

What power, RPM range, peak torque and peak HP are you designing this build for?

If you are running in Fresno, CA, and averaging a 300 foot elevation, your engine will feel good about that.

I agree, and I have experienced, that very small changes can be “felt” by your butt dyno.  Those small changes in performance have been most noticeable in my 22R.  Performance-seeking changes in my 22RE’s have not been as noticeable. 

I believe H8PVMNT has clearly demonstrated that very small changes in a carb’d engine can be significant.

Crankshaft scrapers are relatively inexpensive, however, I don’t believe a SuperFlo 902S engine dyno would record the change in torque in a stock 22RE, however it might record the difference between 5w-20 vs 20w-50.  Scrapers also are known to be more tricky to seal up.  Regarding lubricity issues, I have not read about any serious problems with a 22 in typical 4-wheeling activities.

When it comes to changes in a 22RE, first, MammaECU will control and limit many changes, including AFR.  The stock 22RE injectors will limit AF.  Volumetric Efficiency are THE two big words when it comes to engine performance and power… so intake, head, cam, and exhaust is most often the main focus.

If you are wanting to tweak and tune for incremental power, and I’m a big fan of getting the most out of our little engines, there are known factors to help.  Super tuning a 22RE and all its sensors is very important. Beyond that,  motor oil and gear oil viscosity can be parasitic, along with other engine components that induce drag– NASCAR engines typically run 0w motor oil and electric water pumps, for example.

That’s just my very limited experience with Toyota 22s. 

Gnarls.

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

What power, RPM range, peak torque and peak HP are you designing this build for?

If you are running in Fresno, CA, and averaging a 300 foot elevation, your engine will feel good about that.

I agree, and I have experienced, that very small changes can be “felt” by your butt dyno.  Those small changes in performance have been most noticeable in my 22R.  Performance-seeking changes in my 22RE’s have not been as noticeable. 

I believe H8PVMNT has clearly demonstrated that very small changes in a carb’d engine can be significant.

Crankshaft scrapers are relatively inexpensive, however, I don’t believe a SuperFlo 902S engine dyno would record the change in torque in a stock 22RE, however it might record the difference between 5w-20 vs 20w-50.  Scrapers also are known to be more tricky to seal up.  Regarding lubricity issues, I have not read about any serious problems with a 22 in typical 4-wheeling activities.

When it comes to changes in a 22RE, first, MammaECU will control and limit many changes, including AFR.  The stock 22RE injectors will limit AF.  Volumetric Efficiency are THE two big words when it comes to engine performance and power… so intake, head, cam, and exhaust is most often the main focus.

If you are wanting to tweak and tune for incremental power, and I’m a big fan of getting the most out of our little engines, there are known factors to help.  Super tuning a 22RE and all its sensors is very important. Beyond that,  motor oil and gear oil viscosity can be parasitic, along with other engine components that induce drag– NASCAR engines typically run 0w motor oil and electric water pumps, for example.

That’s just my very limited experience with Toyota 22s. 

Gnarls.

For now I just want to get it put back together and running so I can drive it! After that, I plan on spending more time fine tuning everything (plan on installing a wideband O2 sensor and gauge when the motor goes back in for more data when tuning) and see how much of a difference can be made doing that

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Also, new flywheel and clutch kit are on their way, so depending on what time they come in on friday I should hopefully be able to get them to the machine shop to have the flywheel and pressure plate balanced (the machine shop is in the same building as the Napa I ordered them from haha

[Gnarly4X]

Also, new flywheel and clutch kit are on their way, so depending on what time they come in on friday I should hopefully be able to get them to the machine shop to have the flywheel and pressure plate balanced (the machine shop is in the same building as the Napa I ordered them from haha

Hey sassparilla_kid,

Whose clutch kit and flywheel did you order?

I am very curious to learn how much, if any, the machine shop that does the balance on the flywheel and pressure plate, will discover what it takes to balance them.  It would also be nice to know to how many grams they balance to and what balancing equipment they use?

Thanks,

Gnarls.

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Hey sassparilla_kid,

Whose clutch kit and flywheel did you order?

I am very curious to learn how much, if any, the machine shop that does the balance on the flywheel and pressure plate, will discover what it takes to balance them.  It would also be nice to know to how many grams they balance to and what balancing equipment they use?

Thanks,

Gnarls.

They're both Luk brand, and of course I ordered them for a turbo truck because I believe there are minor differences between them and the n/a models (diameter, spline count?)
Unfortunately the guy who has the machine shop doesn't have any balancing equipment, so now I'm debating finding a shop that does or just assume they're close enough from the manufacturer.

Was hoping to get the engine mostly buttoned up today but I dicked around all morning and ran out of time to really get anything done. Managed to get the rest of the engine bits power washed though, so pretty much all I have left (while it's on the stand) is setting cam timing, install the distributor, and get the intake manifold/s (such a weird design) on along with whatever other piping there is for the egr and water stuff. I'M GETTING SO EXCITED!!!!

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[SO Teen]

If I may ask... What brand of gaskets are you using for your intake, exhaust, and head? Looking for some for my 22RE and have not been able to find solid reviews. Some good some bad but pretty much 50/50. The 3 that I've heard of are OEM, Rock, and felpro and am really pushing towards oem truthfully.
Beautiful build by the way. It is looking great and you're going to love it!