Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild

[emsvitil]

There's 2 adjustments on the AC amplifier.

One is a low rpm cutoff (in case your idle up isn't working correctly).    If your rpm lugs too low with the AC on it will turn AC off.


The other works with a thermistor in the AC evaporator.     This one is a fine balancing act. (and seems to be undocumented too)    It cuts off the compressor when the evaporator gets down to a certain temperature.

Set it too high and you don't get full cooling.     And   set it too low and you'll  have great cooling until the evaporator ices up and you then don't get full cooling.         I would lose AC cooling on long drives, that would recover after a stop (because the ice evidently melted).     Then lose effectiveness after awhile again.

I eventually added a resistor inline with the themistor to fake out the system and keep the evaporator from freezing.     Then years later I thought toyota really should have an adjustment for doing just that.      Then finally I happened to have the AC amplifier out and wondered what the 'other' adjustment would do................. and finally put 2 plus 2 together   (3)............

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Hmm, maybe we are talking about different models? On FI vehicles there is a little knob on the A/C amplifier that controls the output to the clutch. Theres also an input (rpm) from coil. I think the knob is actually labeled RPM. Maybe there is a different set up for carburetors...

On my 1986  22RE...

I did not know that thing existed until I recently had my AC recharged.  After they recharged my system, the AC shop owner reached down under the glove box and was explaining to me as I watched that he is adjusting a knob that lowers the temperature that the AC is pumping out before it turns off from was set for about 40d F to about 34d F.... I'm paraphrasing, but that's real close to what he said.

Gnarls.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

I would like to see this mysterious knob. Maybe I'll go stare at my truck and see if I can find one, this is interesting to me...

[redneckcustoms13]

They all have it. Even 1st gens have it.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I would like to see this mysterious knob. Maybe I'll go stare at my truck and see if I can find one, this is interesting to me...

Well... I looked for that "knob" once before after I got the AC recharged.  I could not find anything.

I just looked again.  I don't find, nor can I see anything that you can turn or anything that is connected anything to do with the AC pump.  If it is there, I would have to be shown where it is.

I suspect I was tricked.  It is possible that this long time, highly experienced AC shop owner figured out that most people would not look for that "knob", and therefore he could pull off this stunt and act to pretend to make the air coming out of the AC cooler.  This act would psych the owner into a placebo affect that they will experience a cooler temperature and that he has really done an extraordinary job of his work on their AC unit.

Can anyone confirm and show me a photo of this "knob"?

Thanks,

Gnarls.

[redneckcustoms13]

Geez gnarls. Are you losing sight with your age pal?
https://goo.gl/images/ym9ojA

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Geez gnarls. Are you losing sight with your age pal?
https://goo.gl/images/ym9ojA

I'm old, but NOT that old!  And, I do have two pair of glasses

I looked carefully 3 more times, with flashlight and a mirror.  I cannot see ANY knob. 

If my AC guy actually turned a knob simply by reaching his hand under the dash, I will need to have him show me where the hell it is!! 

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

... (in case your idle up isn't working correctly). 



Yes it is... I replaced the vacuum switch on top of the rocker cover, and then adjusted the little nylon hex knob on the vacuum control valve.  It works great now.

Gnarls.

[redneckcustoms13]

Feel for the harness going to the box. The knob will be right next to the harness sir. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Feel for the harness going to the box. The knob will be right next to the harness sir. 

redneckcustoms13... you seem to always be on alert and knowing your poop!   

Geeezzz... If I feel around under there any more I could be accused of a sexual deviate!! 

OK, so I gotta believe its there, I just can't see it yet.  I'm going back to my AC guy to have him "fine tune" the AC recharge, so when I do I will asked him to show this knob!!

Gnarls. 

[emsvitil]

https://shop.cruiserparts.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=36708

The blue knob is low rpm cutout
The red knob is temperature control

(knobs may or may not be red and blue)

It's easier to see if you remove it from it's compartment (on duct)behind the glove box .    Just push the sides of the glove box in and disconnect the vinyl flap so glove box can pivot all the way down.

[redneckcustoms13]

Black on 1st and 2nd gen trucks/4runner.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

So is the "red" accessible? Or u gotta pop the cover off?

[emsvitil]

Pop the cover off, it slides right out

[emsvitil]

MY 86 FSM only says:


AIR CONDITIONER AMPLIFIER

INSPECTION OF AIR CONDITIONER AMPLIFIER

Check Engine Speed Detecting Circuit

(a)  Run the engine, and operate the air conditioner
(b)  Check that the magnetic clutch disengages at the specific revolution.

Cut-off rpm: 600 - 700 rpm

If the cut-off rpm is too high, turn the adjusting knob clockwise to adjust.
If the cut-off rpm is too low, turn the adjusting knob counterclockwise to adjust.


And there's a B&W diagram pointing to the blue knob

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

The red knob is what's interesting to me, doesn't seem like something that should need adjusting, also looks like something that can only be accessed by removing cover?

[emsvitil]

The red knob is what's interesting to me, doesn't seem like something that should need adjusting, also looks like something that can only be accessed by removing cover?

There's variances in the thermisters and the circuits in the AC amplifier.    And mounting the thermister on the evaporator will also get some variances in temp readings.

You can either play it safe and have no adjustments with a high default setting (say 40) or be able to get down to the 34 in which case you'll need some means to fine tune for production variances.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Well… I’m glad you all figured this out.  I’m very glad that my A/C shop really does know what they are doing (I would have been shocked to learn that the shop owner pulled a funny on me!)

Over the years on these forums, I’m always blown away what I have learned from the forum members willing to share their knowledge or experience.

Strangely, in all the years I’ve had auto A/C work done on my vehicles, no one ever mentioned anything about these “knobs”, or any of the adjustments they will do, until my A/C guy showed me as he made the adjustment, and told me about the RPM adjustment under the dash.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I have this info from mud

Wow!... that's great tech!!

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

MY 86 FSM only says:


AIR CONDITIONER AMPLIFIER

INSPECTION OF AIR CONDITIONER AMPLIFIER

Check Engine Speed Detecting Circuit

(a)  Run the engine, and operate the air conditioner
(b)  Check that the magnetic clutch disengages at the specific revolution.

Cut-off rpm: 600 - 700 rpm

If the cut-off rpm is too high, turn the adjusting knob clockwise to adjust.
If the cut-off rpm is too low, turn the adjusting knob counterclockwise to adjust.


And there's a B&W diagram pointing to the blue knob

Great tech!!

Gnarls.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

I'm also glad to learn about this 2nd adjustment for the future.  I don't need to mess with it as my A/C r134 works great.  In fact I had to turn it off yesterday cause I got chili.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

UPDATE AUGUST 1, 2018

My 22RE rebuild now has 10,600 miles on it, mostly freeway at an average of 75 MPH.

It’s burning 1 quart of oil about every 600 miles.  I’ve tried 20w-50 to see if it will reduce the consumption, it did not.

There is no blow-by and no exhaust smoke that I can see.  The oil does get dirty quickly, so I’ve change the oil and filter about every 2,000 miles.

I have consulted with several engine builders and a very reputable Toyota engine builder.  The information I have now seems to point to bad piston rings, and specifically the ones from the DNJ rebuild kit supplied by engnbldr.  The rings apparently have some history, at least with one Toyota engine builder, of being poorly manufactured and not having enough tension to properly seal with the cylinder walls.

My local machine shop that machined the block also mic’d all the bearings, rods, pistons, and crank, and I paid them to set up and check all specs and tolerances.  I did not mic or check those measurements myself.  I did not verify the RA for the cylinders, I did not plasti-gauge the crank bearings after getting the block back from the shop.  That was a mistake.  Trust but verify!!!!!

I took my time and assembled the engine carefully, so I cannot imagine where I might have made a mistake in the assembly that would cause the amount of oil consumption I am experiencing.  I believe the break-in procedure was carefully followed based upon the machine shop, who builds race engines, and the break-in procedure as described by Tod at engnbldr, and Jim at 22RE Performance.
 
The engine is performing very well with lots of torque and power.  The current gas mileage averages about 18 MPG with 95% freeway at 75 to 80 MPG, burning 87 Octane fuel.  Since the gear ratio puts the RPM at about 3200 for 80 MPH in 5th gear, I cruise most of the time on the freeway 5 days a week for my 75 mile trek back and forth to work between 3000 and 3200 RPM.

It still has the cold start issue, which I have not fixed.  It does not want to start like my other 22RE did.  I have to crank it about 4 or 5 times for 5 seconds each time before it will start and then it does not want to idle at 750 or 850 RPMs until a minute or two.

I have readjusted the valve lash now about 4 times.  The exhaust valves with the engnbldr 261C Crawler cam, go tight about .002” inch, which causes a rough idle similar to a lopy cam.  I assume the added overlap is creating a problem for the ECU.

The spark plugs are very clean and don’t appear to have any unusual carbon build up.  The last two compression checks were within spec.

Since I don’t know for sure why it’s burning so much oil, I will have to pull the engine and do a complete inspection and analysis to see if the cause can be determined.

Of course I am extremely disappointed.  At this point, my tentative plan is to store the truck again in my garage until I can have an engine built by Jim at 22RE Performance. Since the lead time for a long block is about 32 weeks out, I will have some time to save up some money and slowly continue to work on my list of restoration items for this project.

I have not been able to reach Tod or Ted at engnbldr for comment.  I do not want to make any assumptions, accusations, or point any fingers at the machine shop, any manufacturer, or any source for parts until have some facts or professional assessment and determination on the cause of failure.

With that said, all the main engine rebuild parts were supplied by engnbldr.  I ordered the parts from Tod because of engnbldr’s history of reputation and Tod’s very generous sharing of his knowledge and support before, during, and after I assembled and fired the engine.  Their very attractive pricing was also a consideration.  I found the rocker cover gasket and grommets to be poor quality (ordered Beck Arnley replacement from RockAuto), I have two freeze plugs leaking some coolant, and I’m concerned and puzzled why the exhaust valve lash is going tight after about 3,000 miles on several exhaust valves.

Based upon my experience and my discussions with professional engine builders, going forward, I will only buy and use absolutely top quality parts from sources that have top notch reputations for quality and service.

Since I am obviously NOT a competent DIY engine builder, from now on I will do more intensive research before choosing parts, manufacturers, and sources.  Or.. just pay to have a competent professional build my stuff.

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

Have you done a compression and leakdown test?

You may be able to isolate problem cylinder(s) before you take it apart.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

you check your pcv and vent hoses? check for vacuum or pressure with gauge at dipstick tube...

[blackdiamond]

More intensive research?

[Gillesdetrail]

Didn't you have a rich or lean fuel problem in the first moments of running the engine that could have affected ring seal? How can it be burning this much oil and not have sooty spark plugs?

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Didn't you have a rich or lean fuel problem in the first moments of running the engine that could have affected ring seal?

Hi G,

Yes.  The number 1 injector was not firing during initial firing of the engine.  At that point, I could not run the engine long enough to properly break in the cam shaft.  I replaced the injector connector at the wire harness.  BUT… I don’t think that issue would cause the oil consumption I’m having.

How can it be burning this much oil and not have sooty spark plugs?

That’s a great question.  I cannot figure out why I don’t see some excessive carbon (oil burn) on the spark plugs?  Or... some blow-by or exhaust smoke under heavy throttle.   I will be happy to pull the plugs and post a photo again.

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

More intensive research?

Hi bd,

20/20 hindsight … yes I should have spent more time preplanning and doing more research with the “experts”, then have more facts and valid information to decide the “cost vs quality vs time” outcome.  I made a snap decision to start the rebuild.  I could have just ordered a long block from 22RE Performance (that was one consideration).  I wanted to do the rebuild myself, since I had not completely rebuilt a 22 before.  My other failure was not completely measuring, checking and verifying ALL machine work (bore, RA) and ALL bearing tolerance specs before assembly.

With that said, I don’t believe that would have prevented me from unknowingly installing defective or poor quality pistons or rings.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

 

you check your pcv and vent hoses? check for vacuum or pressure with gauge at dipstick tube...

Hi E,

I installed a new pcv valve and vent hoses.  I did not check for vacuum or pressure at the dipstick.  I could do that, and I would suspect there will some crankcase pressure.  If I measured a vacuum or a pressure, what would it tell me?

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Have you done a compression and leakdown test?

You may be able to isolate problem cylinder(s) before you take it apart.

Hi e,

I have done several compression tests.  I have not done a leak down test, and that is probably a good idea before tearing the engine down.  At least it could pinpoint the condition of valves/seats, rings, cylinders, head gasket, and any unusual issues with the new head.

But…. I still have to rebuild the engine to fix it.

Gnarls.