Author Topic: Naches and other areas in grave danger of restriction and closure.  (Read 3004 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SqWADoosh

  • Offline The 2K Group
  • ***
  • Turtle Points: 10192
  • Male Posts: 2,436
  • Member since Oct '14
While taking my club up to Naches this weekend I had the opportunity to speak with the OHV enforcement/education officer. He let me know about a proposition in the works that has a very real chance of closing down all of the motorized trails, free dispersed camping, and more. Soon as I came home yesterday I started looking into this proposition. I reached out the PNW4WDA (Pacific Northwest 4 Wheel Drive Association) for further information on the matter. I will link the full information below however here it is in a nutshell from one of the guys at PNW4WDA who attended one of the meetings on the proposition hosted by the Forest Service:

Quote
SooooÖ.hereís a quick take on what I learned from the meeting last night....

Basically the plan breaks down into four possible alternatives. A-D Iíll start with my preferences first and then work backwards. Keep in mind my opinions are based almost entirely on the Naches Ranger District since it is the one that Iím most familiar with.

Plan/Alternative A leaves everything the way it is now. Nothing changes. Donít get to excited though, Alternative A cannot and will not happen. Put it out of your mind. Iím always up for a fight, but sometimes you have to know when to move on.

Alternative D This plan leaves the most miles of motorized roads open to the public (more specifics later.) It lists all of the roads/trails as designated corridors. This means that dispersed camping WILL be allowed along all of these routes (camping in places other than the fee areas.) This alternative also gives us back the ATV routes on level 1 roads in the Little Naches that were implemented (and then pulled) last yearÖ.or at least until the Bird Huggers sue. One bad thing about this plan, and I havenít had time to find out if itís true, is that it offers no trail/road maintenance. When something washes out, it stays closed forever. Like I said though, I donít know if thatís true. I need to do a little more research, or if someone has the answer please chime in. If it IS true, then Iím not supporting this alternative. If it IS NOT true, then this the one that Iíll support in my comments.

Alternative B This is the alternative that the Forest Service is pushing. It is a reasonable compromise between the motorized users and the Bunny Huggers. It closes NO numbered trails, only some mileage of old spur/logging roads in the Naches District (More details on the later) From what I saw, none of which cut off access to any of our trails, at least in the Naches Ranger Dist. Like Alt D, this also gives back the ATV routes from last year until somebody sues to close them. At the moment I have two main problems with this plan (beside a few road closures.) Problem 1. There are at least two numbered trails in the Rimrock Area that arenít on the TMP maps. I need to verify the numbers when I get to a map, but itís the tail end of 615 where it forks, Southwest of Narrowneck, and heads down to towards Klickitat or toward the gate on the old Layman Highway (1070) Weíre told by Kelly Lawrence that itís just a misprint, an honest mistake. Iím inclined to believe her since theyíve always been horrible at things like this, but itís imperative that they get back on the approved map. Ron Rutherford is spearheading this and will keep us all in the loop. Problem 2. Both the Little Naches Road and Bumping Lake Rd are NOT designated corridors. This means all of those nice camping spots (that are more than a 100ft from water) in there are no longer going to be allowed. This will just force more people into the same areas. No good can come from that. More use, more damage, more garbage etcÖ We go to the mountains to get away from people, not to jamb into the same little campground as all of them.
This is the plan, in my opinion, that is most likely to get approved regardless of comments. At the moment, Iím not necessarily for OR against it. I need a little more info.

Alternative C Donít bother. Sell your toys and by yourself some hiking boots and a copy of ďA Bird Watchers Guide to the Northwest.Ē

Regardless of which plan you decide to support there are a few key points, in my opinion, that you need to address in your statement in addition to the ones Iíve already touched on.

1. ALL forest service roads must be open to ATVís
2. We need accountability on a trail maintenance plan. Ex. If a trail/road washes out, what plan & Funds are in place to repair it. Thereís some specific wording that a few people are working on regarding this that will better explain to them what we expect. Iíll let you know when I have it.
3. Your comments need to focus on facts as to why your opinions will create less resource damage, and more economy for the surrounding areas. Donít bother with what your rights are. Money talks, bull crap walks.

I then went to the following website on the forest service website that has all the information available on the proposition, and started reading. On this website you will also find the page here that allows you to comment/post your viewpoint on the proposition. You will also find here the page where you can read all the comments posted by the public. If you read through them you will see that as it stands now we are vastly outnumbered by the greenies. They have bombarded the page voicing their support of Alternative C. The worst one that would completely close down the area to WATVs (Wheeled All Terrain Vehicles). As you all know we are in a constant battle with these people to preserve our right to utilize the forest for off road use. This latest attempt has a very real chance of success according to the OHV guy I spoke with. There is very little publicity on the proposition and that is on purpose. They are attempting to sneak this one through and get it passed before anyone in the community can stop them. With that I urge you all to voice your opinion on the above website in support of Alternative D which will preserve the most of the area. Of course Alternative A would be ideal however as stated above it just isn't going to happen. Alternative D is our best hope at this point to maintain as much as possible. Please share this with friends, family, fellow wheelers, anyone who you think would be willing to voice their opinion on the above website. I'm also looking into the physical meetings that are sure to take place in the near future on the matter and will post the pertinent information here once I obtain it. Below I will quote what I personally said in my comment on the page. By no means should anyone copy and paste my words however hopefully it will give someone who doesn't know what to say an example. Thanks guys and please do what you can to help us save one of if not the best area in Washington to go wheeling and camping.  :usa:

Quote
I write this in grave concern for the impact of this proposal on a long standing recreational area. These areas are of great worth to many of Washington's citizens. I know I am not alone in saying that I have been going to these areas with my family and friends for many years. The thought of losing more destinations to get outdoors and enjoy our beautiful country and state concerns me. These areas provide a location for old friends and new to come together and enjoy some good clean fun in their 4x4, ATV, or other OHV. I sincerely hope and pray that the committee will take into account my protest and go forth with alternative D to secure our ability to utilize and enjoy these treasured areas. Furthermore to make my stance clear on this matter my stance is as follows:

1. All forest service roads must be open to WATVs.
2. We need accountability on a trail maintenance plan. Ex. If a trail/road washes out, what plan & funds are in place to repair it. I know myself and other's in the off road community are happy to help as we always have.
3. Camping should not be removed from these areas nor limited any further.
4. Off roading is not a crime nor is it a "scourge" on the area as some claim. The off road community volunteers thousands of hours of their time to maintaining these areas. More so than any other group of people. To limit the use of these areas to them is the true crime.
5. The off road community brings in vast amounts of income to these areas as it utilizes them throughout the year. So much so that if it were to be prohibited from utilizing the areas the local economies would be stricken terribly by the loss.

Thank you for your time and hearing my stance on these issues.


Sincerely,
Andrew Hackett
Washington Wet Wheelers

SqWADoosh [OP]

  • Offline The 2K Group
  • ***
  • Turtle Points: 10192
  • Male Posts: 2,436
  • Member since Oct '14
No one has anything to say about this?  :sad2: The deadline for comments is in 2 days.

toyodaaddict

  • Offline 4WD Legend
  • *****
  • Turtle Points: 408
  • Male Posts: 797
  • Member since Sep '08
I have something to say, but it may not be appropriate :maddest: It's just one attack after another.

Good job posting this SqWADoosh and nice comment :thumbs:
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

toyodaaddict

  • Offline 4WD Legend
  • *****
  • Turtle Points: 408
  • Male Posts: 797
  • Member since Sep '08
Hey SqWADoosh, what about posting this over on NWWHEELERS?
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

SqWADoosh [OP]

  • Offline The 2K Group
  • ***
  • Turtle Points: 10192
  • Male Posts: 2,436
  • Member since Oct '14
Hey SqWADoosh, what about posting this over on NWWHEELERS?

I don't really have a presence over there. Please share this everywhere you can by all means.

mudmaster

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 1866
  • Male Posts: 2,580
  • Member since Feb '05
    • Buy me a beer
I sent my letter in


Time to go wheelin!

85-4roller

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: -70
  • Posts: 120
  • Member since Mar '06
  • Save our forest from the sierra club
Letter sent, But ALL OF US MUST BE AWARE.................
The liberal sierra club members have infiltrated the Forrest service & the judicial system. They will not be happy until all the public lands are closed to all, including, Horses ,4x4, bicycles, snowmobiles, cars & wheel chairs.
Please tell all your friends & families to consider not supporting the liberals, with their sierra club friendly agenda in the next election.
They have slowly closed many of the trails & campsites that I have been using with my family for over 50 years.
Every few years there are more closures or use restrictions, this must stop or there will be nothing left., but the left....
Please tell all your friends & families to consider not supporting the liberals, with their Sierra Club friendly agenda in the next election.
The future of our outdoor freedom depends on this...

PLEASE VOTE
Save our forest from the sierra club, they are the enemy of outdoor enthusiast everywhere.

SqWADoosh [OP]

  • Offline The 2K Group
  • ***
  • Turtle Points: 10192
  • Male Posts: 2,436
  • Member since Oct '14
Letter sent, But ALL OF US MUST BE AWARE.................
The liberal sierra club members have infiltrated the Forrest service & the judicial system. They will not be happy until all the public lands are closed to all, including, Horses ,4x4, bicycles, snowmobiles, cars & wheel chairs.
Please tell all your friends & families to consider not supporting the liberals, with their sierra club friendly agenda in the next election.
They have slowly closed many of the trails & campsites that I have been using with my family for over 50 years.
Every few years there are more closures or use restrictions, this must stop or there will be nothing left., but the left....
Please tell all your friends & families to consider not supporting the liberals, with their Sierra Club friendly agenda in the next election.
The future of our outdoor freedom depends on this...

PLEASE VOTE

This isn't a thread to push your political agenda.

85-4roller

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: -70
  • Posts: 120
  • Member since Mar '06
  • Save our forest from the sierra club
Like it or not, it is the factual truth that has been restricting sensable off roaders for years. I wish there was a better way to make the public aware of the gradual reductions of public lands available for enjoyment. Any suggestions? Because our current method is not working. 
Save our forest from the sierra club, they are the enemy of outdoor enthusiast everywhere.

toyodaaddict

  • Offline 4WD Legend
  • *****
  • Turtle Points: 408
  • Male Posts: 797
  • Member since Sep '08
Like it or not, it is the factual truth that has been restricting sensable off roaders for years. I wish there was a better way to make the public aware of the gradual reductions of public lands available for enjoyment. Any suggestions? Because our current method is not working. 

I think one of the big problems is with in the offroad community it's self. I can honestly say that of all the people I know that wheel or even just really care about access to public land, Only like 1% of them do anything about it, not even something as simple as sending in a comment to let the FS know how they feel. Just look at this thread.
The people that want us out are active and very organized and they put a lot of pressure on the FS to keep us out.  I agree that more needs to be done to let the general public know whats going on. I also think we need a way to change the image that the general public has of offroaders.
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

SqWADoosh [OP]

  • Offline The 2K Group
  • ***
  • Turtle Points: 10192
  • Male Posts: 2,436
  • Member since Oct '14
I think one of the big problems is with in the offroad community it's self. I can honestly say that of all the people I know that wheel or even just really care about access to public land, Only like 1% of them do anything about it, not even something as simple as sending in a comment to let the FS know how they feel. Just look at this thread.
The people that want us out are active and very organized and they put a lot of pressure on the FS to keep us out.  I agree that more needs to be done to let the general public know whats going on. I also think we need a way to change the image that the general public has of offroaders.

Not only all of this but the sad fact is that a lot of the off roading community lives up to the stereo type. Every time I wheel I am able to nearly fill up my trasharoo with trash I pick up off the trail. The unfortunate truth is that this hobby is very appealing to a lot of very ignorant people.

toyodaaddict

  • Offline 4WD Legend
  • *****
  • Turtle Points: 408
  • Male Posts: 797
  • Member since Sep '08
Not only all of this but the sad fact is that a lot of the off roading community lives up to the stereo type. Every time I wheel I am able to nearly fill up my trasharoo with trash I pick up off the trail. The unfortunate truth is that this hobby is very appealing to a lot of very ignorant people.

Good for you, picking up others trash :thumbs:. If more of us would get in a habit of cleaning up our forests, the losers that think its ok to litter wouldn't be such a problem. We haven't done it in a couple years , but my cousin an I used to go out to places like Greenwater and Naches after the big holiday weekends and load the trucks up with garbage and run it to the Enumclaw dump. We had a good time doing it and it was amazing, the stuff we find.
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 2921
  • Male Posts: 2,562
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
I think one of the big problems is with in the offroad community it's self....

Land use and off-roading has always been a hotly debated topic among 4-wheelers.  There are many aspects to this subject along with multiple perspectives on what is right and fair.

I started off-roading as a hobby in 1977, and remained active until 2000.  I belonged to a Ĺ dozen clubs.

I’ve said it for years…. The 4-wheel drive community needs to keep a low profile and keep our big mouths shut.

I remember in CA 1986, Anza Borrego Park.  It was an unbelievably beautiful desert area, accessible by 4-wheel drive.  Within 1 year after of one of the big 4X magazine published an article and exposing the locations of all the very unique areas, sadly most of it was destroyed.

Here in AZ, the local club opened several awesome rockcrawling trails. Then through the internet and other media, people started publishing the GPS coordinates, within a few years the BLM closed the trails. 

The Feds and land use agencies are not interested in allowing the public to use “public lands”, their job is to “control” its use.  Even all the public hearings, meetings, and sanctioned club organization efforts to work with local state and federal agencies mostly gave them specific information, exact locations, and more reasons to close the trails to off-road vehicles.

Unfortunately, there are some very ignorant and apathetic people who think it’s OK to trash an area or destroy vegetation while wheeling, whether on motorcycle or 4X.  It has bugged me that the TV commercials showing a 4-wheel vehicle tearing the crap out of the road with tires spinning and dirt flying at high speed.  The general public perception of off-roaders is mostly negative.

Of course there is the other side with folks who want to stop anybody from having fun, so they lobby to take away public rights.  Protecting land from destruction is not such a bad thing, but there should be a balance.  I spent 8 years sand duning in Glamis. I was member of CORVA.  They were trying to keep the dunes open to vehicles.  The opposition was trying to close the dunes to vehicles.  Ironically NOBODY who fought to close the dunes would ever plan a trip and spend a week end just walking them for fun.

So, if the 4-wheel drive community truly wants to keep trails open, we should consider NOT exposing our fun to the anti-off-road lobbyists who have a louder voice, better funded, and will do anything to take away our fun.

That’s just my worthless opinion.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~10,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 2921
  • Male Posts: 2,562
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
This isn't a thread to push your political agenda.

This thread is from last year and I'm not sure why I clicked on it again, but I re-read it and don't see any new comments.


SqWADoosh, although I commend your efforts and good intentions... this entire subject IS about a political agenda!!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~10,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

85-4roller

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: -70
  • Posts: 120
  • Member since Mar '06
  • Save our forest from the sierra club
The other side wants higher gas taxes, land restrictions, smog / engine restrictions, camping restrictions,  time of access restrictions & so much more.
 If the public believes that this is not a political issue,  then motorized recreation is doomed for the future generations on public lands.
I wish I was wrong, but living in Cali I have been on the liberal front line & have seen all the massive restrictions / closures that have taken place since the 1960s & it never stops. Think about it before you vote........................................
Save our forest from the sierra club, they are the enemy of outdoor enthusiast everywhere.

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 2921
  • Male Posts: 2,562
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
The other side wants higher gas taxes, land restrictions, smog / engine restrictions, camping restrictions,  time of access restrictions & so much more.
 If the public believes that this is not a political issue,  then motorized recreation is doomed for the future generations on public lands.
I wish I was wrong, but living in Cali I have been on the liberal front line & have seen all the massive restrictions / closures that have taken place since the 1960s & it never stops. Think about it before you vote........................................

Hey 85-4roller,

You are correct.

I have posted my opinion a number of times on the subject of 4x4 trails, environmentalists, and the bureaucrats
that want to control every aspect of our lives.

I have off-roaded since 1977 and I can go into great detail on my experiences with this subject.

To a large degree, the 4-wheel drive community is their own worst enemy.  The more the location of the trails and the activity of the 4-wheel drive events are published, the sooner the land and trails will be closed to access.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~10,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

Related Topics

20 Replies
3948 Views
Last post Apr 08, 2004, 12:06:42 PM
by lowbudgetwheeler
12 Replies
1777 Views
Last post Dec 08, 2006, 04:26:30 AM
by Cheesemaker
2 Replies
666 Views
Last post Feb 21, 2007, 12:54:05 PM
by tryn2Crawl
4 Replies
1340 Views
Last post Aug 28, 2009, 12:47:39 AM
by docked4runner
3 Replies
917 Views
Last post Jul 22, 2013, 12:25:17 PM
by Snowtoy